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Fever Crafting (Rune mage balance thread) - Swiftkusura - 05-31-2020
Okay so feel free to jump in, play at home with your friends and family but I've been coming up with ways to make rune mage both more fun and also keep them from being destroyed from the inside out from an improper nerf that would make them into a magic engineer.
So first things first, elemental runes aren't a proper thing to hate, as they mean the runes blown up, and in most cases means they have to spend 7m standing still to make that work out, and that already counterplays itself, on top of the fact that builds can hit much harder than this 7m turn, we can debate that but it's true people are just worried about one big damage. The real villian is how rune mage functions with Razor and that starts with my first idea, Razor rune.
Razor Rune So it's no secret someone slaps a null rune down the fight is pretty obvious with their intent, they're going to pizzaria that shit into a giant razor rune that makes walls and kills you for 200 damage a spin upwards of 700 damage to tanks, it's not fun you know it's not fun, I advocate not to fight like that on a rune mage because I hate the fact that it's so strong for no reason, and yes in that way rune mage ISN'T fair, and IS broken, In most cases it's because evasion isn't working on runes, see my bug report on that if you need to but that's just what's happening so this change and that should make a healthy balance, the change build that I feel like razor rune should instead do one big damage, divided by damage per person, so if it were say 200 damage at level 6 rune status and hits someone 5 times it does 40 damage before DR, suddenly it's a controlled damage without being crazy.
Side noteI'm adding this later for dev to see, hopefully. I would like razor rune to behave as a scaling ability when doing this, whether it's SWA or willpower or something, it needs some sort of build relevance but not too high, something like thousand stab so if it's like SWA 100% then maybe it does like 3 hits on a single target doing 33 each, or maybe increase that so that it's not eaten to the ground on DR alone, but that's not my call
Null Rune I mentioned it because lets be fair, if you take away the spinner dream from chunking people what good is it right? Chrono does it better and this rune just makes runes last forever, you slap a cigarette addict on this baby it's not going no where. So my idea is to make it stop nulling itself and instead make it so all linked runes damage ignore elemental resists, this would be healthy because the rune will still trigger and slash resist isn't common, if it even would be counted, allowing rune mages to be healthy with ice or fire runes, with a trigger effect to remove one positive effect, only ever one, not no "level statuses" no just one status from enemies hit.
Smoke Rune Yeah baby it's your time to hear about the rune everyone hates, within good reason this runes been a subject of debate for a while now from my understanding so let me dig my claws into this, it's no secret the issue with this is more that smokescreens a problem, and the fact that it makes runes arguably invincible, and that's not fun, especially if there's a null rune involved, see above, so I propose the smoke rune when stacked does NOT create smoke screen, if it does make it a placement for 1 turn. In spite of this I'd like smoke rune to function as a "Sturdy" effect, so no damage no matter how high can break it on the first try, runes get their survivability but they're breakable with or without smasher.
Illumination Rune I like what you were going for with this rune, I do...But it's too much, I'm sorry, it needs to cap at like 50, MAYBE 100 with a chrono rune involved due to the 5 rounds it takes to prepare, as it stands I can dish out level 400 glowing to someone if I made a perfect explosion glowing rune, where's your evade? lazarus knows. We already have a magnet rune which I'll talk about that in a moment but for now lets address the pure audacity of taking 200 evade from someone. Evade struggles, and it's not okay, and rune mage without this rune already counters evade builds even when the evasion bug is fixed. It's not okay we know it's not okay, you don't have to feel bad for hating it, you're safe here.
Magnet Rune Yes, magnet rune, this ones a different idea personally I'd like it if magnet had more purpose to it, we're offing a bit of utility from the rune if we kneecap illumination but it needs to be done. I'd like it if magnetize wasn't so heavy on it but lets be fair I've seen 72 magnetize and it caps at 50 hit anyways so it's not like game killing, all reality it's one of the fairer runes, makes great for traps and whatnot, but I would really like it if it had a placement effect in addition to pulling runes pulling magnetized enemies towards the rune at least 1 tile, this would make comboing with earth magic more fun and involved than just slapping a crawling rune down.
Chilling Rune Oh boy don't get me started, I gotta set my hat down for this one kids, this puppy can with very little effort chrono into over 100 frostbite, which can swap into dealing 100 damage to someone and freeze their toes off, or push them for 30+ damage a tile through it, it's a verglas WET DREAM, and that's...Not okay, I'd sooner say to take away the frostbite effect and make it frozen and only for one duration it'd make it where anchor and chilling don't play well together and make more choices for rune pathing, plus even with the frostbite being kinda broken, who's going to run through your ice for 400 damage anyways, but it still can happen.
Warding Rune Okay so this is mostly just to make warding a better rune in general, its resonation placement trigger and engraving effects don't...do anything, a few walls are annoying but everyone and their mother blinks hauntings side cuts farts their way in hanging maneuvers, you're lucky if a max power rune can keep out a black knight, but I'd be willing to accept that fact for ONE change, just one. I'd like if it lived up to the name warding rune and when it triggers causes every ally within range of the rune to gain the warding tattoo status, or similarly, make it more of a support rune.
That's my main gripes about the class, most of what I mention should ideally shift the balance a little and make them less frustrating to deal with, for both the rune magician and anyone unlucky enough to have to deal with arena sized smoke
Re: Fever Crafting (Rune mage balance thread) - HexGirlBestGirl - 06-01-2020
Ah, yes. Yet another Rune Mage thread. Time to screech loudly at it. For starters. As I see it, Rune Mage is pretty much autohitter Magic Gunner with extra steps and silence as a weakness.
Analyze situation.
See which of your many runes handle said situation.
Use said runes.
Usually get good results.
Someone trying to come to you? Engrave an Anchor Rune or just stack it a bit then rush it in so you get more status inflict.
Someone want to evade? Just inflict glowing equal to how much evade you'll need.
Evasion a worry? Haste Rune stacked atop of it for no problemo.
Status buffs? lmao just null rune.
My point being that not much thought as a whole has to go into playing it, yet it's pretty beneficial even if not being used for damage. You can mitigate most forms of damage form the class, yes. But you can't outweigh the obnoxious status inflict gains they get from stacking runes nor the fact that they can usually stack 2-4 runes before just 1m or 2m tossing it at your face.
So i'll just go over all of these things and my responses to them quite frankly.
Swiftkusura post_id=39930 time=1590950449 user_id=188 Wrote:So first things first, elemental runes aren't a proper thing to hate, as they mean the runes blown up, and in most cases means they have to spend 7m standing still to make that work out, and that already counterplays itself, on top of the fact that builds can hit much harder than this 7m turn, we can debate that but it's true people are just worried about one big damage. The real villian is how rune mage functions with Razor and that starts with my first idea, Razor rune.
As i've proven a bit in the past, Elemental Runes are pretty much just place them down then stack destruction rune and that's about it. You don't need to spend much more unless you want a haste rune, I guess. Usually only a menace when you stack them and hit multiple at once or use something like Acid or Sound. Even then. Outdamaged often without stacking and rushing multiple in.
As for Razor Rune, I think there's far more issues and what not overall that's not just "lol fuck smoke" or anything like that. Razor Rune isn't as big of an issue overall but it's still an issue all the same. Magic DR isn't ignored by it so.
Swiftkusura post_id=39930 time=1590950449 user_id=188 Wrote:Razor Rune So it's no secret someone slaps a null rune down the fight is pretty obvious with their intent, they're going to pizzaria that shit into a giant razor rune that makes walls and kills you for 200 damage a spin upwards of 700 damage to tanks, it's not fun you know it's not fun, I advocate not to fight like that on a rune mage because I hate the fact that it's so strong for no reason, and yes in that way rune mage ISN'T fair, and IS broken, In most cases it's because evasion isn't working on runes, see my bug report on that if you need to but that's just what's happening so this change and that should make a healthy balance, the change build that I feel like razor rune should instead do one big damage, divided by damage per person, so if it were say 200 damage at level 6 rune status and hits someone 5 times it does 40 damage before DR, suddenly it's a controlled damage without being crazy.
Side note I'm adding this later for dev to see, hopefully. I would like razor rune to behave as a scaling ability when doing this, whether it's SWA or willpower or something, it needs some sort of build relevance but not too high, something like thousand stab so if it's like SWA 100% then maybe it does like 3 hits on a single target doing 33 each, or maybe increase that so that it's not eaten to the ground on DR alone, but that's not my call
While I have minimal suggestions for this, literally just make it like cinders but functioning on people, yes. Pretty much what you said. But then it'd just become a tactical nuke on a singular person when stacked with something like elemental rune or destruction rune. Probably. If magnet runes move it as well, then y'know. Free big damage real estate.
Personally, i'm more for removing the whole 'move to do slashy slash' damage and just making that strictly limited to engraving. That way you're at least forced to give up the rune if you want damage with it. No idea what we'd replace the newly missing effect with though. So. All I can say for sure is that the damage has to scale off of something other than easy to gain rune levels.
Swiftkusura post_id=39930 time=1590950449 user_id=188 Wrote:Null Rune I mentioned it because lets be fair, if you take away the spinner dream from chunking people what good is it right? Chrono does it better and this rune just makes runes last forever, you slap a cigarette addict on this baby it's not going no where. So my idea is to make it stop nulling itself and instead make it so all linked runes damage ignore elemental resists, this would be healthy because the rune will still trigger and slash resist isn't common, if it even would be counted, allowing rune mages to be healthy with ice or fire runes, with a trigger effect to remove one positive effect, only ever one, not no "level statuses" no just one status from enemies hit.
It's still gonna be good for on-demand status nulling. Not making it null itself also means no free chronos for an extra rune level but that's whatever. Although this would just make it mandatory for Elemental Runes in 95% of instances and i'm personally iffy on the whole 'yes this is blatantly good in tandem with this therefore you must use it' kind of ordeal.
Destruction Rune is already that with Elemental Rune. This just sounds like a way to make the action economy go even more out of your favor. 30 FP for either 3m or 6m to place Ele Rune then Destruction Rune then Null Rune. Just to get as much damage as possible. Pretty sure Rune Mage was advertised as a class not primarily intended for damage, so that's fine, I guess????
Swiftkusura post_id=39930 time=1590950449 user_id=188 Wrote:Smoke Rune Yeah baby it's your time to hear about the rune everyone hates, within good reason this runes been a subject of debate for a while now from my understanding so let me dig my claws into this, it's no secret the issue with this is more that smokescreens a problem, and the fact that it makes runes arguably invincible, and that's not fun, especially if there's a null rune involved, see above, so I propose the smoke rune when stacked does NOT create smoke screen, if it does make it a placement for 1 turn. In spite of this I'd like smoke rune to function as a "Sturdy" effect, so no damage no matter how high can break it on the first try, runes get their survivability but they're breakable with or without smasher.
I already commented on this on another thread . Look there if you really want my opinions on the matter. The tl;dr variant of it though is that smokescreen is fine, just add more ways to deal with it and make it so people within one or two range of said rune can still break it via basic attacking. Means they have to be in the smoke and people farther away with literally no way to see anything can't just magically go shooty shooting it from afar.
Swiftkusura post_id=39930 time=1590950449 user_id=188 Wrote:Illumination Rune I like what you were going for with this rune, I do...But it's too much, I'm sorry, it needs to cap at like 50, MAYBE 100 with a chrono rune involved due to the 5 rounds it takes to prepare, as it stands I can dish out level 400 glowing to someone if I made a perfect explosion glowing rune, where's your evade? lazarus knows. We already have a magnet rune which I'll talk about that in a moment but for now lets address the pure audacity of taking 200 evade from someone. Evade struggles, and it's not okay, and rune mage without this rune already counters evade builds even when the evasion bug is fixed. It's not okay we know it's not okay, you don't have to feel bad for hating it, you're safe here.
Sure. Whatever. Nothing to say here. Never really care about it since usually haste rune and what not already makes it so that my evade is nigh worthless lest i'm a Demon Hunter with Cobra ready to go. And sadly, I'm not often a Demon Hunter with Cobra. Even then, just Anchor the Cobra and you're back to square one. So I don't see much noticeable difference when most people toss spells/autohits around when they see they might struggle to hit you. Level 400 Glowing might sound scary to me if there wasn't far more to be scared of on average.
Swiftkusura post_id=39930 time=1590950449 user_id=188 Wrote:Magnet Rune Yes, magnet rune, this ones a different idea personally I'd like it if magnet had more purpose to it, we're offing a bit of utility from the rune if we kneecap illumination but it needs to be done. I'd like it if magnetize wasn't so heavy on it but lets be fair I've seen 72 magnetize and it caps at 50 hit anyways so it's not like game killing, all reality it's one of the fairer runes, makes great for traps and whatnot, but I would really like it if it had a placement effect in addition to pulling runes pulling magnetized enemies towards the rune at least 1 tile, this would make comboing with earth magic more fun and involved than just slapping a crawling rune down.
I'll just get Level 1 Isendo and Galren at level one, auto enchant that bad boy and become the RUNE PULLER. BE PULLED ONTO MY RUNES. THIS IS MY WAY OF CIRCUMVENTING ACTION ECONOMY. This is fine. This is whatever. Still nearly as dull as most other things personally since it'd become an obvious minor staple. So sure. Go ahead. Just know, if one element gets a staple, I'll probably screech for all of them to. Versatility and all that.
Swiftkusura post_id=39930 time=1590950449 user_id=188 Wrote:Chilling Rune Oh boy don't get me started, I gotta set my hat down for this one kids, this puppy can with very little effort chrono into over 100 frostbite, which can swap into dealing 100 damage to someone and freeze their toes off, or push them for 30+ damage a tile through it, it's a verglas WET DREAM, and that's...Not okay, I'd sooner say to take away the frostbite effect and make it frozen and only for one duration it'd make it where anchor and chilling don't play well together and make more choices for rune pathing, plus even with the frostbite being kinda broken, who's going to run through your ice for 400 damage anyways, but it still can happen.
I'd assume that this is due to Aggressive Cold. Last I recall, Frostbite splits the damage like cinders, yeah? Do correct me if that's not the case. Yet that's the only way I can see this being a problem. Even then. Outside of that specific scenario, Frostbite is pretty garbage as is.
So frozen is likely just gonna only be a buff for it. It's more the fact that it produces a lot of ice at being placed higher in the food chain. Since y'know. Scales with Rune Level and all that. So easy peasy expanding ice range. Really, I'm mostly just gonna say that this can stay and no changes are needed until further notice.
Swiftkusura post_id=39930 time=1590950449 user_id=188 Wrote:Warding Rune Okay so this is mostly just to make warding a better rune in general, its resonation placement trigger and engraving effects don't...do anything, a few walls are annoying but everyone and their mother blinks hauntings side cuts farts their way in hanging maneuvers, you're lucky if a max power rune can keep out a black knight, but I'd be willing to accept that fact for ONE change, just one. I'd like if it lived up to the name warding rune and when it triggers causes every ally within range of the rune to gain the warding tattoo status, or similarly, make it more of a support rune.
The power of my FP Drain Builds have proven otherwise in many cases. Not as much recently on the blinking side though since Silence is getting harder to inflict and sonic shell also lost said silence.
I'm not down for this making people get warding tattoo overall in general. Status resist is already easier as all hell to get than Status Inflict overall. Just make it give something like an enchant that lets people 2m knockback for 1 tile or some shit. Almost as if everyone has their own little short ranged engrave-oriented warding runes to a weaker degree. Of course, the caster of the rune won't be able to get it.
But miss me with all that "lol more status res hours" even if only on trigger. Add in proper support runes rather than this kinda stuff.
That's about all there is to say.
tl;dr Rune Mage makes me sleep, Beyblading with one just happens to make me sleep harder, Properly overhaul this damn class rather than changing individual things but if we do go the latter route then most of these are whatever/fine. I have no issues overall with the class besides people thinking too hard with it when it's primarily autohit magic gunner and such.
Alright. Bye.