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+--- Thread: The great Dodgening (/showthread.php?tid=6943)
The great Dodgening - Swiftkusura - 06-04-2020
Okay here comes swift with another shitty idea, and I mean it this is a real stinker because I'm not sure if anyone will agree but personally, I'd like to see evade become healthier in some way.
Celerity should become like Defense and Resistance, but not. Below are key points to illustrate my meaning.
What this means Okay so what I mean is if we make it like def/res is becomes a percentage, and we basically kneecap hit because for this to make since we can't assume 300 hit or 3 hit, so if you have 40 scaled celerity, you get a 40% chance to dodge or evasion, if we really need to we can make a small rework where torso type effects cel/def/res where unarmored gives more to cel light gives more to res and heavy gives more to defense, in more ways than just armor I'm talking if you're wearing unarmored your defense and resistance value is skewed in some way, not to the point where they're unusable but bare with me here I didn't plan this like I always do.
How about evade/armor/marmor? Obviously armor and marmor remain unchanged but what if evade becomes added to the chance to dodge, where weapons are impacted by their accuracy similarly where a gun with say 80% chance to hit will have 80% base accuracy modifier versus celerity whose stat is 50 scaled giving you a 30% chance roughly to hit them or they dodge/evasion proc, which is unlikely to have something this low if you don't intend to do autohits, and usually can be raised to near 100% to keep it possible to have a chance to hit even a faster character. We could even impose a cap to keep it possible to land hits.
What about hit? gone, trash, rotten. Garbage. We don't need hit if we factor in a change like this, because then we go back to square 1, where evade is either too good in a fight or too bad, even if the too bad part is much too commonplace anymore
What about evade skills?Well personally I'd like to see them changed, hit skills too, the game becomes less about who can buff hit or evade faster and becomes actual fighting, no longer will fortune winds rule your life young ones.
Def/Res Alternatively here's another idea, we make defense and resistance an activation where they cannot occur with evade, but in turn evasion works like defense making durability economy better where you can't back 50 cel with 50 defense to be immune to damage or something, but keep evade working as it does now so it doesn't become the "God tier defense stat"
I'd feel a lot better about evade if it didn't get shut out of existence for being incapable of holding out 350+ hit chance and just dies because evade can only reach like 200 base so you have to buff hard just to dodge, or on the other hand if you don't have 350 hit because you're poor and needy you don't suffer because you're a basic attack build who failed to hit your crumb quota.
People will probably hate this idea, but at the end of the day it's just an idea
Re: The great Dodgening - Lolzytripd - 06-04-2020
I'd alternately like most, if not all projectile skills require a hit check, continuing on past the target on a miss.
Re: The great Dodgening - Mr.SmileGod - 06-04-2020
Not opposed to the idea. Though, instead of making defense not affect evaded hits, just make it do 50% effectiveness. Otherwise, defense/res will still be the preferable option at all times. And I'd definitely not like to see Cel just be Def but relabeled.
Re: The great Dodgening - Snake - 06-04-2020
An unpopular opinion would be making Evasion's damage reduction gain a bonus number based on the 'negatives' a Hit has. I've seen many 'successful' builds just plain give no shit to their Hit ratio and dump for the biggest number they can pump out, because Evasion's just 30%. They try to compensate that 30% with as much SWA as possible, and it miraculously WORKS.
So! The idea goes as far as this small If/Else condition:
If Evasion's Hit Chance was a negative number (or under 10%). Evasion's DR = 60% (doubled), else, Evasion's DR = 30% (unchanged).
Re: The great Dodgening - Kameron8 - 06-04-2020
Snake post_id=39978 time=1591303727 user_id=310 Wrote:An unpopular opinion would be making Evasion's damage reduction gain a bonus number based on the 'negatives' a Hit has. I've seen many 'successful' builds just plain give no shit to their Hit ratio and dump for the biggest number they can pump out, because Evasion's just 30%. They try to compensate that 30% with as much SWA as possible, and it miraculously WORKS.
So! The idea goes as far as this small If/Else condition:
If Evasion's Hit Chance was a negative number (or under 10%). Evasion's DR = 60% (doubled), else, Evasion's DR = 30% (unchanged).
I'm not opposed to this from a conceptual level (though it would make Skill mandatory on everyone), but it's laughably unfeasible with the way the autohit accuracy formula currently behaves. Consider how unlikely you are to bypass Cobra with a skill, even when you have a very, very good chance to hit -- now consider how easily a 60% damage reduction threshold could be reached.
Either way, the 'Hit vs Evade' and 'Tank vs Dodge' balance has always been finicky and prone to swinging back and forth at a moment's notice. If there was an easy fix, we'd have fixed it the sixth time a thread like this came up.
Re: The great Dodgening - FatherCrixius - 06-05-2020
Don't forget there are multiple (Class locked mind you) methods of bolstering that evasion DR too. Boxer and Verglas primarily, but in-fighter gi also serves. I don't have much to add or comment on this, mostly because I feel like you could swing the pinnacle heavily either way with minimal additions- Boosting all of evasion makes the DR stacking evasive few stronger, ect ect.
Re: The great Dodgening - firehawk11 - 06-07-2020
We need to figure out what to do about evading and auto-hits. Once we can agree what to do as a community, only then can we move forward, to try to fix it.
One thing I can suggest is rather a simply but mean way to go about it. Just make everything dodgeable but cap dodging to be a 50/50 chance or 25/75 Chance, so 1 in 4 hits will hit you, so forth. Perhaps we need a hard cap on dodging.
Perhaps another way to do it is like this 25% chance to fully dodge, 50% chance to activate Evasion and 25% chance to just outright fail. That way you got a way to evade but not break the game.
Or this one idea, maybe you can make Evasion better but the more Armor and MArmor you got the worst it becomes, so you want to wear armor like Ninja Armor to maximize Evasion but not decrease the effectiveness of it.
Re: The great Dodgening - sadbot - 06-10-2020
A change that major would be a pretty large undertaking, and probably requires a solid amount of thorough test server testing, but I do think that evade is kind of annoying in its current state and is basically unfixable without being reworked entirely.
Right now, any good evade build can stack enough evade to completely and utterly shut down most basic attack focused builds unless they have a gun or bow. Problem is, a change to the level of stacking hit or evade just causes more problems for pve and/or pvp, and likely leaves one of them still completely shutting down the other regardless. Something like this is probably in order eventually, allowing evade stackers to gain benefit from it without making basic attack builds worthless if evade is in a better spot or being worthless themselves if hit stacking is better.
Re: The great Dodgening - Swiftkusura - 06-10-2020
That's kinda the dilemma, my idea is mostly focused on "How can we let dodgers dodge, without ruining everyone's experience" a sort of, how can everyone feel happy with this