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+--- Thread: Projectile skills (/showthread.php?tid=7403)
Projectile skills - Lolzytripd - 11-19-2020
My suggestion and Opinion is that Projectile skills and spells should no longer automatically hit. They should undergo a hit check like basic attacks and if they fail continue on past the initial target. Single target/aoe skills should still auto hit in my opinion.
Things like Icicle spear/Shinken/aerial razor ect could miss.
Things like Sear/cyclone spear/magaisendo would still auto hit.
RE: Projectile skills - Snake - 11-19-2020
I don't see why that should be a thing when Spirit Mirror exists, or Guardian Spirit that can be used to shield you too.
RE: Projectile skills - Perdition - 11-19-2020
Absolutely not.
RE: Projectile skills - Shujin - 11-19-2020
I still believe most autohits were a mistake.
Or at least they are heavily overtuned in damage, to the point the out scale damage from crits.
A one time counter that can be cheesed, and guardian spirit is hardly a argument against it.
RE: Projectile skills - Perdition - 11-19-2020
The reason why both autohits are necessary and why this is a bad idea are because making dodge able to actually 'dodge' skills makes it the best strategy by far. Why would you tank when with enough evade you can just straight up ignore most damage that comes your way? AoE being the exception just isn't enough to offset the fact that unless you are hard stacking skill and luck and have hit steroids, all of your attacks will miss because now evasion builds can dodge skills without cobra.
So the game comes down to one thing. Can you stack enough hit to actually land damage on your opponent? If not, then you lost. This now means everyone is locked in to stacking luck and skill if they want to do any damage.
If you make autohits scarce instead it just makes those classes the only ones capable of tanking properly. Honestly dodge is not something that will ever be balanced in a game like this because of everything I said. As it stands it's just going to be tanking with extra steps in the form of Evasion! procs with a sprinkling of able to avoid basic hits.
RE: Projectile skills - Shujin - 11-19-2020
I do not believe that the current mindset of
"Why would I build dodge or Hit chance, if I can just build alot of SWA and ALWAYS hit anyway and deal more damage (even through evasion) while being more tanky still!"
Is any better. All this does is encourage zero brain strategy and cookie-cutter builds. even games like DnD don't do that, because its broken.(with rare exceptions)
while I am indifferent towards projectile skills being dodgeable or not, the damage in this game is by a good portion overscaled. Magic is on a rise for a reason...And the new vulcano enchant is flat broken.
RE: Projectile skills - Perdition - 11-19-2020
That mindset isn't much better, no, but I would still say it's better than the alternative because it swings the pendulum too far in the other direction. There are competitive basic attacking options currently even if they are objectively 'worse' than autohit builds. If you move toward allowing most things to be dodgeable then that just makes it so everyone HAS to stack hit to be useful because dodge will be king by far. At least when it comes to tanking, you can make damage stick and get a chance whereas the opponent dodging everything makes that chance nonexistent.
Magic is mostly on the rise because many silences were shifted to inflict checks which in turn gets rid of magic's biggest check. Silence itself is very unhealthy and a common suggestion of making it more like hesitation for spells would allow magic to be more tame. Still, there's definitely overall too much damage, you're right in that regard. I think that comes down to the way stats work than anything else. When you have damaging things (especially those that scale high) scale off defensive stats it's no wonder tanks run wild using autohits. If offense was made to scale PURELY off of stats that are only useful for damage and nothing defensive I think it would go a long way.
RE: Projectile skills - Lolzytripd - 11-20-2020
I wasn't suggesting all things become dodgeable, only projectile skills.
Aoes, auto hit single targets (both ranged and melee) should sil autohit,
RE: Projectile skills - Perdition - 11-20-2020
That just makes projectile skills be ditched in favor for anything else.
RE: Projectile skills - Snake - 11-21-2020
What Perdition said, pretty much. lol