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+--- Thread: Weapon Rebalance (/showthread.php?tid=7567)
Weapon Rebalance - Yashatari - 01-01-2021
I think we need a massive overhaul on the weapons.
To name one of my points....(Used the item list for this info, so if its outdated, not my problem)
Ice breaker(Axe) it has 50% ice atk damage, 110% scaling(60 str, 50 ski) and is a 3*
Yukijin(Sword) it has 50% ice atk damage, 100% scaling(60 str, 40 ski) and is a 7*
My second point....
Longsword(Sword) it has 110% scaling all str and is a 1*
Braver Replica(Sword it has 90% scaling(60 str, 15 ski, 15 san) and is an 8*
This game is all about SWA anymore, So why is the basic sword better than an 8*?
Sure people trade out the starting gear for other gear with less Scaling, But its usually for a gimmick.
Why does a 3* axe have better scaling than a higher rarity weapon?
The braver replica also requires you to grind arena tokens, To which would be tedious at low level.
For something that requires such an effort investment, It should feel and be better than a long sword.
My solution, An overhaul.
Stuff like the 1* starting weapons like sword, spear, axe, Should all only have a scaling of 90%
The starting tomes as well, Flamberg 60 will/60 str to 50/50. Flambella can stay the same. Flamnyaghra boost that to 120% scaling.
i don't think you should be able to just start with a 110/120% scaling weapon then slap on a rebel.
Stuff like 50% of elemental atk as damage, They should all have uniform scaling and rarities. icebreaker down to 100% scaling, and lets say 5* rarity. yukijin, scaling stays the same, down to 5* rarity.
While im on this one, Shouldn't on hit effects still proc on auto hits? You're still hitting them. if not, Whats stopping me from using a spineleash that has 120% scaling? which is 20% higher than yukijin and 10% higher than icebreaker. with the higher scaling, i dont lose damage on autos or basics, But with the others you have to hit check to get use of them.
Sogensara is basically just a shittier yukijin with a different potential, Give it UL/2 Ice atk to compete with Yukijin.
Should buff the swordfish sword to 200%(not a typo) scaling, This thing is never used.
Since people avoid str scaling weapons like the plague because they have to minmax, Just buff every str scaling weapon by 20%.(Except meta weapons like raijin)
Even stuff like spine leash and dual blade, so what if they have 140% scaling? Eternal solitude has 150%.
How many times do you run into kenseis using Raijin? How many times do you run into a kensei using kouenjin?
I don't care if this doesn't get approved, More so just to get a point across. The weapons need a rework in some way, If not mine, Then some other way.
RE: Weapon Rebalance - GSM - 01-06-2021
Alright... I know nobody got to this, but I may as well throw my hat in the ring.
Let's go case by case, here;
Quote:Icebreaker (Axe) it has 50% ice atk damage, 110% scaling(60 str, 50 ski) and is a 3*
Yukijin (Sword) it has 50% ice atk damage, 100% scaling(60 str, 40 ski) and is a 7*
This would ordinarily be a point I would agree with. However, you're also neglecting to mention that Icebreaker is a craftable weapon, and the other miscellaneous statistical differences between the Icebreaker and the Yukijin.
For example, the Icebreaker has a base Power of 11, 70% Accuracy, and 16 Weight; while the Yukijin has a base Power of 9, 85% Accuracy, and 10 Weight, along with additionally having 10% Ice Resistance built in for equipping it, and the Ice Lily potential skill.
There's also the fact that the Yukijin is a sword, specifically a katana, which synergizes with Kensei and is one of the most supported weapon types in the game, with the most variation in weapon parts; the Icebreaker is an axe, which is pretty much solely built for crit damage and high damage, and virtually nothing else, with far less support outside of Ghost and Black Knight.
Ultimately, I'd say the Yukijin wins out here, but is a tiny bit more exclusive.
Quote:Longsword (Sword) it has 110% scaling all str and is a 1*
Braver Replica (Sword) it has 90% scaling(60 str, 15 ski, 15 san) and is an 8*
Also would be a valid point. However, the reason 1* weapons have such high scaling is because their base statistics are extremely lacking, and don't even have special effects, excluding Blacksand and Daggers, which have a Potential skill.
Let's compare, once again;
Longswords have a base Power of 5, 85% Accuracy, and 6 Weight, and have no further changes, but is a craftable item.
The Braver Replica has a base Power of 16 (the highest base Power of any sword, and one of the highest Powers in the game), 90% Accuracy (high-end for weapons that rely on Accuracy), and 15 Weight, alongside always coming with the Divine enchantment when first received, further boosting its already very high statline.
However, there are far more builds that rely on a Longsword, purely because of the 110% STR scaling, even though statistically a Braver Replica would be better. That's because players that stack STR only really care for the immense scaling, and that's what the Longsword is there to provide.
I wouldn't really compare these two, since they're on opposite ends of stat power and actual usage.
Quote:This game is all about SWA anymore, So why is the basic sword better than an 8*?
Sure people trade out the starting gear for other gear with less Scaling, But its usually for a gimmick.
Why does a 3* axe have better scaling than a higher rarity weapon?
For the former, the only reason the Longsword still sees widespread use is because of its enablement of high-STR scaling builds, who only really focus on a handful of stats.
Braver Replica having SAN as a secondary scaling stat ultimately harms the weapon, since SAN is a relatively uncommon stat to be bringing on a sword-using build. I've seen it work before, but it's extremely uncommon.
For the latter, see the above; TL;DR, the 3* Axe is craftable, and its one gimmick of 50% Ice ATK on-hit is outshined by the 7* Katana doing the same thing, and additionally granting the user Ice resistance, as well as having higher accuracy, as well as having more accessibility, as well as having a Potential.
Quote:The braver replica also requires you to grind arena tokens, To which would be tedious at low level.
For something that requires such an effort investment, It should feel and be better than a long sword.
I agree, but this would require that all of the Arena weapons to be looked at, since all of them have the strange scalings; however, the fact that they come pre-enchanted with a Divine enchant needs to be also considered as a factor, because if it's brought up too strong without it, that means the weapons are instantly going to break into the scene. I do think they need a bit more of a reason to be used, like a Potential, but if their scaling changes too much, then it can ruin the state of the game.
Quote:Stuff like the 1* starting weapons like sword, spear, axe, Should all only have a scaling of 90%
The starting tomes as well, Flamberg 60 will/60 str to 50/50. Flambella can stay the same. Flamnyaghra boost that to 120% scaling.
i don't think you should be able to just start with a 110/120% scaling weapon then slap on a rebel.
As discussed before; 1* starting weapons have very high scaling because they don't have any special gimmicks or any insanely high stats. The only two starting gear pieces that have a Potential proper is Blacksand and the basic Dagger, which I could see getting hit, but overall they don't necessarily break the game. If you bring down the scaling of starting weapons, you're hitting the only really good thing they're useful for, which is their higher-than-normal scaling. Which, yes, could make the game more interesting, but it could also result in most builds that rely on such having nothing at all to run, or straight just downgrading themselves to slap on a gimmick which they don't need in the first place.
Quote:Stuff like 50% of elemental atk as damage, They should all have uniform scaling and rarities. icebreaker down to 100% scaling, and lets say 5* rarity. yukijin, scaling stays the same, down to 5* rarity.
While im on this one, Shouldn't on hit effects still proc on auto hits? You're still hitting them. if not, Whats stopping me from using a spineleash that has 120% scaling? which is 20% higher than yukijin and 10% higher than icebreaker. with the higher scaling, i dont lose damage on autos or basics, But with the others you have to hit check to get use of them.
Congratulations, you've up-valued a craftable item and de-valued the potential-wielding, resistance-granting -jin elemental katana, because the only thing being registered is the rarity and the scaling. Rarities are also factored in for weapon mutations; you're suggesting that Icebreakers should be mutating from an axe to a polearm instead of a sword, and the -jin katanas go from swords to polearms instead of bows.
On the auto-hits section; basic attacks are ultimately more rewarded for a far more risky playstyle.
Basic attackers need to rely on Skill and Luck, as well as potentially having defensive stats such as Celerity and/or Defense and Resistance, and definitely Vitality, and whatever stats their weapons scale on, and if they want to do increased damage, they also have to run Guile; they get pidgeonholed into a very specific playstyle, which often runs the very specific Duelist/etc class lines to actually be effective.
On the other hand, auto-hits only really care about high scaling, and can hit a dodgy character anyway, at an Evasion damage reduction penalty mind, but most don't care. You're still hitting a dodgy target, but all you need is to pump your scaling stats and then worry about whatever else you want in the build. It's far less restrictive.
Allowing auto-hits, which scale off of SWA%, to additionally benefit from on-hit effects, would quite simply lead to people getting nuked through Evasion, whereas that instantly de-values basic attacking builds, because in order to actually be effective and fight, their damage just isn't guaranteed against a similar build.
Quote:Sogensara is basically just a shittier yukijin with a different potential, Give it UL/2 Ice atk to compete with Yukijin.
I was around when Sogensara was first introduced into the game. It had a better scaling than Yukijin, and higher stats to boot, especially a higher Power. You do not want to overbuff this weapon, because I remember when it had very quickly swept into the metagame and when it very quickly receded back into obscurity.
Quote:Should buff the swordfish sword to 200%(not a typo) scaling, This thing is never used.
Holy shit, no. Especially not on a sword.
To illustrate why this is such a fantastically terrible idea;
Let's say that someone has 60 Scaled STR, this hypothetical buff just came down as a 200% STR scaling, and this guy has Two Hand, and a fully upgraded Fireblood Remains Swordfish Sword, with a Huge Blade, a Razor Guard, and a Sharp Hilt.
As a Demon Hunter with a white spirit in Rising Tide (which is a 175% SWA sword strike with a white spirit, if you did not know), and with this weapon fully upgraded, with maximum Sentimentality, all tool upgrades, with a SWA scaling fully accounted for of- quite literally, 222 without any further bonuses like Titan Gale/etc...
Rising Tide would consistently be hitting for 388~ damage before any damage reduction is applied, which is absolutely higher than most critical hit builds can do in one hit, and on-par with what some builds can do in two hits.
Buffing something because it is never used is acceptable, but not to this insane degree.
Quote:Since people avoid str scaling weapons like the plague because they have to minmax, Just buff every str scaling weapon by 20%.(Except meta weapons like raijin)
I don't think this is an especially smart move, considering how feast-or-famine Strength really is as a stat. It's either you don't have any, or you have way too much.
Quote:Even stuff like spine leash and dual blade, so what if they have 140% scaling? Eternal solitude has 150%.
Again, no. Tomes can often get away with high scaling since spells often work off of Elemental Attack, and Eternal Solitude has an extremely unusual scaling statline because most dagger builds usually do not build Strength at all; daggers are almost always basic attacking builds, and there's very little auto-hit support for them, so it quite literally cannot be afforded, and isn't worth the payoff. Swords, on the other hand, can kind of do either or, depending on what class you choose.
Quote:I don't care if this doesn't get approved, More so just to get a point across. The weapons need a rework in some way, If not mine, Then some other way.
I'd look at weapons in some other way, perhaps just raising the base accuracy or giving weapons some more accessibility options beyond just giving swords everything. These changes are all overall a net negative.