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+--- Thread: Two-Hand (/showthread.php?tid=7695)
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Two-Hand - Sawrock - 02-04-2021
Make two-hand apply to strength scaling, not axes/spears/swords. That way, daggers/bows/fists/etc with strength scaling can be more useful.
RE: Two-Hand - SolAndLuna - 02-04-2021
I mentioned my opinion on this one in the Discord, but just in case, I'm going to add it here as well.
I personally feel like, if you did make a change to something, it ideally shouldn't be the kind of sweeping change that affects nearly every weapon in the game, and this definitely fits that description at the moment. There are things with purely STR scaling without being able to use Two-Hand that people already use to devastating effect, and there are weapons out there that wouldn't be worth the hassle if a change like this went through, in my opinion.
If a change to Two-Hand came for any reason, I'd rather it didn't effectively make every single person in the game scramble to either make use of the new change or replace their now obsolete weapon. As far as I can tell, though, this is offered due to some specific STR scaling weapons being hard to use, and if that's the case, I'd personally say it's better to adjust those weapons to work better for what they're intended to be. Maybe even add more Two-Hand variants for the weapon types that don't have them yet, like making daggers get a large boost to flanking bonuses when two-handed so they don't need to build the SKI for it as much.
RE: Two-Hand - Perdition - 02-04-2021
RIP bamboo bo
RE: Two-Hand - Raigen.Convict - 02-10-2021
Bows gain crit with two hand... Boom, sensible one so it stops being literally more viable to dual weild bows...
RE: Two-Hand - Sawrock - 02-10-2021
bows have good crit but suffer a lack of power, imo
RE: Two-Hand - Neus - 02-11-2021
I don't know if making such a big improving change to Two Hand is a good idea. The talent is already extremely useful, and on a less important note, it's not very thematic with the idea behind it. You can't two hand a fist, you already need two hands to use a bow, etc.
RE: Two-Hand - Sawrock - 02-11-2021
People can also wear gloves and use two weapons at once, but we can’t do that mechanically for balance reasons. There’s plenty of ways to justify this specific mechanical interaction. Having the balance of a stance to strike with your primary fist, etc.
If you do want to argue logical semantics, as Raigen said, it’s strange how it’s more efficient to use two bows as opposed to having just one.
To add as well, a lot (not all) of the split/alternate scaling weapons are considered good because they lack the strength tax. This change wouldn’t make any of the pure strength axes/swords/spears better or worse, while making non-axe/sword/spear strength-scaling weapons more efficient. The split scaling sword/axe/spears would be the nerf of this change, and they already have the advantage of having more stat points to spend around due to not using strength.
RE: Two-Hand - Autumn - 02-12-2021
The higher a scaling gets total, the more it ends up , this is why a Brawler's Glove ends up getting upwards to 145-155 SWA on extremely high STR builds, this would mean that pure STR scaling weapons would benefit far more than the split-scaling weapons do, while 2-hand currently compliments pretty much any build at the current moment.
Not to completely discount the above poster's points, but we would see the likes of Rebelling Longswords/Brawler's Gloves/Axes completely take over the scene, given they would be able to reach upwards to 170 SWA with a full dragon king set, I already think that STR is the highest scaled stat in the game when you do account for dragon king pieces.
It is a little strange that bows are better at the moment when dual wielded, though I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually physically use 2 bows and instead it is them RPing them both as 1 singular multi-purpose bow usually, and even though the STR scaling bows often see little usage, this change wouldn't do much to fix that issue given that Arbalests are required to dual wield to make use of many of their functions, barring of course Arbalest/Monk's janky interaction with mixed martial arts.
Quote:The split scaling sword/axe/spears would be the nerf of this change, and they already have the advantage of having more stat points to spend around due to not using strength.
This is true for high power split scaling weapons but generally is only the case for the split scaling weapons that go for stats you'd have used already, stuff like SKI/CEL/DEF or VIT end up being highly contested for stats and often make you able to invest up to 40 STR with a decent SWA amount thanks to 2hand. But the likes of a Shine Sword or Magical Nova nowadays would absolutely fail to compete, given they rely on unreliable stats that you generally do not want as high as your SKI or CEL.
RE: Two-Hand - Sawrock - 02-13-2021
A rebelling long sword or axe would have absolutely no changes under this suggestion.
RE: Two-Hand - Sawrock - 02-13-2021
Exactly correct.