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The State of Damage over Time - GSM - 03-17-2021
So, as we all know, damage over time effects (henceforth called DoTs) are insanely annoying to deal with. There's only really two major cases talking about here, but it seems to share a common theme; it disproportionately affects some builds, does either too much damage or has too strong of an effect without too much counterplay beyond "choose a different race" or "just build elem. resistance/status resistance". While I will cover the reasons why this argument is flawed, what I really want to do is propose changes to the two biggest offenders.
Poison
To put it simply, Poison does too much damage as a baseline. The base level of Poison is usually around LV30 at high end PvP fights and PvE, which doesn't sound like a lot, until you realize base Poison does either 3x its base level, OR 10% of your max HP per turn, whichever would be lower. If you have less than 900 max HP, it's 10% of your HP, and if you have more, it's a flat 90. This isn't counting effects that are higher, like Spirited Wretched Oil, or higher end Wyverntouched bites, or Argent Fangs/Demon Drool.
This ALSO isn't accounting for damage increases that apply either to all damage or specifically to Poison effects, eg; Hunted, Fallcall, or Menov's Fang. With these, a good Hexer can quite literally stonewall out any options you have, and let you die a terrible death as you're Super-Poisoned and you just end up dying trying to make up for the free passive damage they get off instantaneously.
How I would fix it is at least halving the max damage Poison can currently do, and making Menov's Fang do the Poison damage that we see today (if not slightly adjusted/lowered), and to compensate for the immediate damage loss, extending the duration of Poison so it doesn't lose as much damage, so much that it's just spread more over time.
"But GSM," you say, "you can just play a Glykin, Wyverntouched, or Salamandra and just say no to Poison or take no damage from it!"
My biggest issue with Poison specifically is that there's only very specific counterplay against it, and half of the "counterplay" is just playing a race that doesn't take as much Poison damage or is altogether immune to the status in the first place. To which I say, that's not fun nor interesting, and I really sincerely hope that the argument of choosing a race other than those 3 races is shut down.
"Okay then what about building for Poison resistance?"
Snakescale is already insanely hard to farm for, let alone it only applies on cloth. It's hilariously bad to try and make a full cloth build just to resist Poison, and even then... full cloth builds are usually dodgy characters, who are already the most susceptible to Poison due to not having ANY status resist.
"Then do status resist!"
Hexer would like a word. It's not fun, not interactive, and basically a stat check to see if you get free damage off. Which, unless you're hyper invested in Faith and Sanctity and also have items on belt specifically to pump up your status resist, you're more than likely going to be inflicted anyway.
tl;dr Poison does way too much damage for how easy it is to proc, and the "counterplay" for it is just either building specifically against Poison or belting items to counter Poison, which isn't fun to deal with for any character.
Burn
Burn theoretically should be fine, since as a baseline it does very little damage. However, Burn has a devastating side effect of negating bonuses to DEF, including from APT, which is an ultimately game-winning effect. This makes an insanely strange side effect of fire mages able to entirely invalidate earth mages, for the sheer reason of lowering their actual stat by such a huge amount, for pretty much nothing. Which, shouldn't make sense in a narrative sense, and definitely effects the validity of earth enchantments to begin with.
The damage I'd say is too low, actually, but Burn has such an insanely powerful effect. I'd rather Burn reduce Physical Def% rather than the actual DEF stat, similar to Acid Rain from Tactician, or Fray, and Hellflame Uorate reducing Magic Def% as well, more than likely going to LV% or 10% each, if not 15% as a cap. This still gives value to Burn, but doesn't entirely shut down tanks and especially earth mages which already have a multitude of counters to look out for, and need to accommodate for.
"But you could just play a Salamandra or any of the 10 races that are naturally resistant to fire!"
Read the paragraph why I hate the same argument with Glykin and Poison.
"What about Fire resistance?"
I actually don't think the damage is the issue. The issue is the insanely overwhelming side effect.
"Status resist, then!"
Read above with the Hexer lines.
Honestly, if these changes do go through, or Poisons/Burns get hit, I would want to see most of the other DoTs get hit too, since it's... a very unhealthy playstyle, especially with the influx of new players coming in.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
RE: The State of Damage over Time - Snake - 03-17-2021
I'm in the side where poison is a little too... prevalent. The fact it's strong is due to how 'burst-y' it is. If I recall correctly, poison in RPGs do only a fraction of the enemy's health, like 5% at the very most. In SL2, Poison has the potential to do from 10% of someone's maximum HP to 15% if we add Hexer into the equation.
It's really, really strong. Mainly because someone OBVIOUSLY won't "just" have Poison doing its damage, but also the kerploofles amount of burst damage everything in SL2 has nowadays.
How do I believe we should approach this more passively? Argentyle Cavern acting like Hikari's blessing, letting us spend more Murai for a longer duration on its effects. It's currently the only solid way to slow down from getting your insides molten inside-out. Looking at Snake-Tooth Necklace and other methods to resist Poison damage should be also considered. Even competent adventurer in any RPG knows that they'll brush with poison, infection, etc. And they're well-prepared for those things.
Though, the more aggressive approach? A rework. Poison shouldn't be tied to level anymore. It shouldn't be intensified or weakened based on it's "potency". What I suggest is the status effect starting from 1% of someone's maximum HP, and every round the toxins worsen by +2%, becoming 3%, then 5%, then 7%, then 9% to finally cap at 10% (or 11% for consistency).
As for duration, Poison should either last longer, like 10 rounds, or, being Poisoned while already Poisoned increases the duration by 1 round, to encourage a less 'poisons u and then uses 7M guard as you die' playstyle. Which is honestly, both very effective and very frustrating to fight against.
This way 'all' poison effects will fall in line to the same effect. There won't be 'stronger poison' or 'weaker poison' based on what you're running. Only ways to make it worthwhile, like for example.
Menov's Fang could accelerate its effect to 10% immediately, increase the damage by 50%, but reduce the duration to 4 rounds and prevent it being refreshed.
Bow of the Green Forest already speaks for itself, being able to refresh the duration every shot from anywhere in the map. It could simply just accelerate its effect on its own way. 1% more to contribute for a faster capping of its damage.
The change will mostly affect what once were 'ineffective ways' of inflicting poison, like Incise or Snake Shot.
As for Burn? Do I need to say much beyond 'why the hell it affects aptitude'? Losing 20 DEF out of nowhere on top of effects like Rampaging is as good as just shrugging and forfeiting a fight because they've stripped you of everything you had to fight them. And the kicker? It doesn't affect Monsters.
It has NO USE IN PVE. Monsters all have base stats set sky-high and no aptitude. So if a Monster burns you? Good bye, son. If you burn a Monster? They cackle and feel tickled.
RE: The State of Damage over Time - Slydria - 03-17-2021
Personally, I don't think Poison is actually as bad as it's stated here. I'd rather it not be directly nerfed like this, especially by as much as half, even on a longer timer.
I think Poison would be fine as a whole if the options for dealing with it weren't limited to really Glykins, Wyverntouched and Summoners that run Phase Phyton.
And while Snake-Fang Necklace offers a chunky 36% Poison Resistance, it's only for 3 Rounds.
I'd like to see some more permanent options for Poison protection items: Like say buffing Dokuneko Bells to grant Poison Resistance. (e.g UL*2.5%, which would be 30% at max UL) or an upgrade to the Warding Cloth that offers greater Status Resistance and even Damage Resistance vs Status Effects as a whole.
I'd also like to see Poison cures from class skills (i.e. Steel Blood, Cleanse Body) to provide some kind of protection against poison so you aren't easily re-inflicted. (Temporary immunity, boosted Status Resistance or maybe even a small heal equal to how much the Poison would do.)
As for Burn, certainly I think it's fair for it to not strip DEF from APT but it wouldn't help it being not especially useful in PvE.
If you want it to be more generally useful, perhaps changing Burn's secondary effect from removing all modifiers, to instead lower a portion of Physical Defense.
For example, let's say it's a -25% to your total Phys. Def.: So if you have 60% Phys. Def., it shaves 15% off but if you have 10%, it only reduces it by 2.5%, this would solidify it as a good debuff vs tanks but not invalidating extra DEF so much that characters with already low amounts are left especially vulnerable.
(If it's too high, the maximum value could be capped by the Burn's LV. e.g. a Level 20 Burn might only reduce up to 10% Physical Defense.)
RE: The State of Damage over Time - Snake - 03-17-2021
Ooh... I like the one for Burn. Commendation given and I hope it's considered.
Poison? Yeah, I'm pretty sure if we were aggressive on nerfing it, it'd just run a lot of builds to the ground. Alas, there's a consistency issue between poison LVs that I'm never really aware of why that's the case. For example, on Custom Spell for tomes, the maximum poison LV possible there is LV10, so it absolutely tickles. Snake Shot is LV15, very minimal damage thanks to it. Then shit like Hexer gets an instant 40-ish and suddenly Poison's eating away 10% of max HP easily.
Though the fact we can resist a lot of things without gimping our builds, but Poison comes as the big bad is sure -not fair one bit-. We need more counterplay to the most braindead way to play SL2.
RE: The State of Damage over Time - Autumn - 03-17-2021
I would rather much more options to deal with poison damage being allowed to be slotted into a build rather than nerfing it all together, as stated by Slydria, poison's damage as is right now is fine, it leads up to a lot of damage total but it needs to add up to that over time, and in that time you can do far far more damage with say a duelist/mage/VA etc.