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+--- Thread: Twin-fire Bow Shooting (/showthread.php?tid=8891)
Twin-fire Bow Shooting - InsainArcaneBirdbrain - 03-29-2022
Something that keeps sticking out to me in GR2 that isn't really related to balance is the fact that Twin Dance was changed to work with all range weapons besides bows. Guns (and to a lesser degree Tomes) being Twin Dancable have opened up the weapon type to a lot more interesting setups that wasn't possible before, adding a bit more variety to the usual fleur spam that such basic attackers often fell into. Basically, I want bows to get the chance to feel the same love. Now yes, while I understand using two bows at the same time isn't too logical, mechanics needn't always represent the ic. In fact, this is already done anyways since a Ranger has to use two bows to get a third action via crits unless they play ghost or another duelist for fleur (which 90% do for that reason).
For this, I point toward a particular Ranger skill, namely Twin-shot. While using two bows at once is impossible, firing multiple arrows at once with one isn't, a fact that has precedence mechanically with this skill. Combined with how people rp 2x bow setups anyway as a single weapon, I see no real reason for bows to be the black sheep of the weapons in being the only non-twin dancable type.
As far as balance is concerned, I don't really see much that would turn the game on its head. Guns and daggers twin dance at range perfectly fine without being unbalanced, and those weapons are more explosive in damage output due to being much less stat intensive. Most of bow's power currently lies in range, and good skills, that latter of which aren't usable with twin-dance anyways. The only real change is opening up more opportunities for people to run bows in creative ways rather than defaulting to duelist out of necessity.
TLDR: Bows should be able to twin-dance, and it would be a cool expansion of the potential the weapons have both mechanically, and in rp flavor.
RE: Twin-fire Bow Shooting - Snake - 03-29-2022
Twin Dance could be awesome on that, but also along with that, I'd wanna pitch in something for Archer too:
Quote:Freehand Barrage
Passive skill.
Main Class-only.
When using a Bow on your main hand, and a sub-weapon that is not a Bow (or no Sub-Weapons), your first attack done while under the effect of Longdraw will deal bonus damage equal to (Archer Class LV)% of your Scaled GUI, and if the attack is a Critical Hit, it will be repeated while losing 15% Hit and Critical per attack (max. 3 times).
RE: Twin-fire Bow Shooting - HaTeD - 03-29-2022
+1 Bow's are discriminated for logic only. Mechanically I think it's fine, as we would likely see it as a means to rping very quick successive shots like elves in fantasy movies. Perhaps this could be enabled in the korvara testing server so those currently at work could see and determine if the interaction is too strong or mechanically sound.
RE: Twin-fire Bow Shooting - Kazzy - 03-30-2022
I don't see it being too strong. Bows don't have good effects and generally have bad scaling as weapons.
I will die on the hill that a mutated electric axe being the best bow is a problem for the entire bow category. Not because E-Axe is too good, but because all the bows are trash.
RE: Twin-fire Bow Shooting - adamkad1 - 03-30-2022
(03-30-2022, 08:11 AM)Kazzy Wrote: I don't see it being too strong. Bows don't have good effects and generally have bad scaling as weapons.But the mutated acid shuriken e.e
I will die on the hill that a mutated electric axe being the best bow is a problem for the entire bow category. Not because E-Axe is too good, but because all the bows are trash.
RE: Twin-fire Bow Shooting - Kazzy - 04-01-2022
Had its scaling put in the grave. But I will concede to them sharing the throne.
RE: Twin-fire Bow Shooting - InsainArcaneBirdbrain - 04-01-2022
(03-30-2022, 08:11 AM)Kazzy Wrote: I don't see it being too strong. Bows don't have good effects and generally have bad scaling as weapons.
I will die on the hill that a mutated electric axe being the best bow is a problem for the entire bow category. Not because E-Axe is too good, but because all the bows are trash.
This is an issue I've been seeing more and more as time has gone on, mostly in the sense that even with how good some bow effects and bow weapon parts are, the entire weapon type itself is invalidated by mutations really, even mutations from STR based weapons in some cases. This isn't to say the mutations are too strong, as you lose an enchant slot on top of the bow parts, but to how weak bows are as a weapon type as a whole currently. No other weapon type requires you to build all of STR, GUI, SKI, and LUC. Even if you aren't building basics on ranger or Arb (which why wouldn't you), then you still need that STR/GUI/SKI tax anyways. This at minimum makes every non-mutated bow setup a 7-8+ stat build simply due to the weapon facing numerous taxes that no other weapon does:
-Farshot requires bows to build 50 scaled gui to hit stuff outside 6ish range without pretty harsh penalties, but they can't benefit from flank to make use of that investment.
-Strength is a scaling tax melee weps can afford thanks to things such as two-handed and remains materials (Both of which Bows lack). This is on top of bows having the lowest achievable SWA numbers, which is understandable when you consider the potential range, but...
-The above taxes makes the GR2 SKI tax even harder to hit, and unlike guns, there's no hit talent to mitigate this. This results in bows having a lot of hit buffs, but a very low hit cap. Daggers also have low hit similarly, but they can gain the difference in flank, something again bows can't due to closeshot.
Now looking at what two notable mutations provide:
Electric Axe: Axe weapon parts allow for more crit damage mod to be added, making up the damage loss of bows a bit. Remains helps round out stats, and it has arguably one of the best PvE effects in the game with a 5 range AoE sound damage effect that outpaces nearly all the bow's effects while sharing the scaling.
Tamaki Shuriken: Even after the tool tag nerf, this is my choice for the best bow in the game currently even with the loss of an enchant. The 80% GUI scaling is indeed low, but since bows have to build the stat anyways to function properly, it actually tends to be on-par, if not better on the SWA-front. In addition to this, the shuriken has even more range than other bows, meaning it outdoes their range gimmick. To add insult to injury, it also has a extremely potent on-hit effect that is comparable (if not better) to one of the best regular bows, Bow of the Green Forest, while also having a moderately higher base crit damage mod. Acid flower as a potential also helps a bow user with their AoE damage output, something they otherwise struggle with.
I know that was all very off the main topic, and that it should probably be its own post. Twin dance for bows is more for flavor and cool class gimmicks more than as a buff for the weapons themselves.
RE: Twin-fire Bow Shooting - Poruku - 04-01-2022
Kinda like how the best "tomes" are staves, spelledge, or mutated weapons