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+--- Thread: Unban Appeal + Possible Clarification (/showthread.php?tid=9561)
Unban Appeal + Possible Clarification - TCBlade - 09-09-2022
Game you were banned from: SL2
In-game name (key): My Parents Took My Lunch Money
Reason you were banned: "For repeatedly gatekeeping, metagaming, and OOCly preventing others from being able to exercise their roles fairly." Exact wording on the reasoning given.
The length of the ban, if you know: One week.
Who banned you, if you know: Dyst
Why we should unban you:
Well, first of all, I want to say I still don't even fully understand why I was banned. I talked with Dyst, and it took about 45 minutes (not exaggerating; last night for me, we started at 9:01 PM and it took until 9:48 PM) to even get to a point where it was being explained to me in a way that made sense, with me having to repeatedly ask why I was banned while I was having a panic attack because of it. Given, I'll say that a few minutes of that was needed for me to calm down because my anxiety spiked a couple times while reading and trying to respond. Still, even after we finished, I have an idea for one of the reasons, but not the first two.
I had repeatedly asked in DMs for examples to be brought up because I didn't know what these supposed "multiple instances of doing this" were, and even then, I was only given one specific case. In that case, I was in a room with several other people, and I only saw one post on a certain player's end (and only saw them type once), and while I did not immediately respond to them immediately because I was typing a response to someone else, I did so afterwards, bringing up that they had a fair point I hadn't even considered. Beyond that, I had seen nothing outside of them icly stating they were leaving so I could deal with the ongoing issue. Multiple others were in the room, as stated before, and I'm quite certain that at least a few of them could vouch on my behalf. But the way this was stated to me, it makes me feel like the ban itself is ooc-based and targeted. I full admit that it might not be, but I'm one man stuck, against my will, trying to run a country on my own when I don't even want to run a country in Korvara solely on my own. It's tedious, it's stressful, and I'll admit, it's had more of an impact on my health than I'd like to admit, to the point it's become fairly common knowledge to those I've talked to (and even some I haven't much talked to) that I'm constantly stressed about it for reasons that remain split in-game and out (split so far that my character and myself have two vastly different opinions on what's going on).
I'm going to be honest; I very much doubt I'm going to be unbanned, not because of it being a week, but more because of how it feels to me and how the chat came off towards the end. Now, I could be entirely wrong on my feelings, but I was given one example, and the other two cases weren't even explained to me (or if they were, it was not made apparent). It personally makes me feel like I'm intentionally being left out of why I was temp banned for a week. Sure, I get it, GM anonymity and all that, but I feel like I should at least be made properly aware of why I'm banned and not left in the dark somewhat, and that there has to be some way for a GM to show me an issue so we could discuss it politely and get to the root of it. I enjoy this game, and I don't want to cause problems for anyone. That is probably why this shook me a lot harder than expected when I first saw it, and why it did the same for so many I frequently DM, rp with in the game, and interact with on an ooc basis. Hell, if I somehow did do something wrong, I want to know, so I can change. I wasn't given a warning, to my knowledge, and no GM dm'ed me with something like, "Hey, concerned about x topic, can I talk to you about that for clarification?" I don't have any of you blocked, and I would have been more than willing to do so in order to iron things out. Heck, the fact I don't feel like I got to fairly defend myself without being told, "I hear you. Counterpoint: I don't care because of my perception of x and y" honestly stings. Not a direct quote for clarification, more just what some of it came off as.
At the end of the day, whatever will happen will happen, and I'll move on, just like everyone else will at one point or another. However, I want to know what I did wrong in full (rather than one part), where I can improve, and what exactly I should personally do. Credit where credit is due; I was given a little bit of information, but even there, I still don't feel like I have enough to work with. It upsets me, even angers me, that things came to this, especially when there were a plethora of other options out there. And then, to hear that the ban of Hated and the temp ban of myself are a part of why some people are leaving? It makes me distraught, even a bit sick, to hear that. We're supposed to be a community, and a community is supposed to have the backs of one another and communicate. I'm not going to say I'm perfect; heck, no one is, and to say that you are is narcissistic. However, if there's an issue that involves me, I want to improve and fix upon it so it doesn't happen again, if possible, assuming there is anything I can do. Everything I do in the game I do when I icly find out. Sure, I've heard and seen things on the ooc end, but I waited until I heard about them icly in some form to act on them because that's not fair, otherwise. That's a trend I intend to keep because it's important to ensure fairness and fun of the game. Heck, I made an entire other thread about the issue because there was reasonable belief that things were being brought into ic from ooc. Regardless, in the words of Joe Dispenza, "The hardest part about change is not making the same choices you made the day before."
At the end of the day, even if I'm not unbanned, all I ask is that I'm informed of issues when possible so I can iron it out if there is anything, or if not, then I can ensure with a GM that we're on the same page.
RE: Unban Appeal + Possible Clarification - Dystopia - 09-09-2022
I'm sorry to hear that you had a panic attack, and I hope you're feeling better now.
I understand not being able to follow things too well while that's happening, so I'll try to explain again.
Quote:Well, first of all, I want to say I still don't even fully understand why I was banned. I talked with Dyst, and it took about 45 minutes (not exaggerating; last night for me, we started at 9:01 PM and it took until 9:48 PM) to even get to a point where it was being explained to me in a way that made sense, with me having to repeatedly ask why I was banned while I was having a panic attack because of it. Given, I'll say that a few minutes of that was needed for me to calm down because my anxiety spiked a couple times while reading and trying to respond. Still, even after we finished, I have an idea for one of the reasons, but not the first two.
I had repeatedly asked in DMs for examples to be brought up because I didn't know what these supposed "multiple instances of doing this" were, and even then, I was only given one specific case.
The reason I didn't give you any details beyond those few, is because there were elements of this case that included harassment.
We always strive to protect those that report things to us, for obvious reasons.
Regrettably, the text limit for bans is very small and so we often have to condense how we word things or generalize to get the basic point across.
This is also why I sat down with you to talk about it, and explain what I could.
I gave you the most recent example that I was aware of, because it was still fresh in your mind and I had hoped that you'd reflect on that one and see where you went wrong, easier than trying to pull up something months ago, because this issue started when Korvara did.
Quote:In that case, I was in a room with several other people, and I only saw one post on a certain player's end (and only saw them type once), and while I did not immediately respond to them immediately because I was typing a response to someone else, I did so afterwards, bringing up that they had a fair point I hadn't even considered. Beyond that, I had seen nothing outside of them icly stating they were leaving so I could deal with the ongoing issue. Multiple others were in the room, as stated before, and I'm quite certain that at least a few of them could vouch on my behalf.
This is false. You had multiple opportunities to respond to them and you chose to respond to exactly zero.
Instead, they were left shouting into a room and someone else answered them, said the words "Correct?" to you, and you answered that person immediately instead of the person that had RPed at you initially.
Nowhere in those logs did we see a proper response. Bottom line?
Whether you like it or not, you have to respond to people that RP at you.
Quote:But the way this was stated to me, it makes me feel like the ban itself is ooc-based and targeted. I full admit that it might not be, but I'm one man stuck, against my will, trying to run a country on my own when I don't even want to run a country in Korvara solely on my own. It's tedious, it's stressful, and I'll admit, it's had more of an impact on my health than I'd like to admit, to the point it's become fairly common knowledge to those I've talked to (and even some I haven't much talked to) that I'm constantly stressed about it for reasons that remain split in-game and out (split so far that my character and myself have two vastly different opinions on what's going on).
Against your will? Really? Did you not put your name in the hat for the chance to lead? I didn't realize anyone was holding you hostage in this situation.
There's zero shame in getting into something and then deciding 'hey, it's probably not for me.'
It's very hard to know just what you'd be getting into in a situation like this, and it's definitely not for everyone.
If you truly can't handle a leadership position, no one would bat an eye if you gracefully stepped down.
They would however be highly upset if you tried to ignore your co-leader's existence entirely, as you have since the start of Korvara.
That probably doesn't look good for anyone.
Quote:I'm going to be honest; I very much doubt I'm going to be unbanned, not because of it being a week, but more because of how it feels to me and how the chat came off towards the end. Now, I could be entirely wrong on my feelings, but I was given one example, and the other two cases weren't even explained to me (or if they were, it was not made apparent). It personally makes me feel like I'm intentionally being left out of why I was temp banned for a week. Sure, I get it, GM anonymity and all that, but I feel like I should at least be made properly aware of why I'm banned and not left in the dark somewhat, and that there has to be some way for a GM to show me an issue so we could discuss it politely and get to the root of it. I enjoy this game, and I don't want to cause problems for anyone. That is probably why this shook me a lot harder than expected when I first saw it, and why it did the same for so many I frequently DM, rp with in the game, and interact with on an ooc basis. Hell, if I somehow did do something wrong, I want to know, so I can change. I wasn't given a warning, to my knowledge, and no GM dm'ed me with something like, "Hey, concerned about x topic, can I talk to you about that for clarification?" I don't have any of you blocked, and I would have been more than willing to do so in order to iron things out. Heck, the fact I don't feel like I got to fairly defend myself without being told, "I hear you. Counterpoint: I don't care because of my perception of x and y" honestly stings. Not a direct quote for clarification, more just what some of it came off as.
I'm not sure where the idea came from that you wouldn't be able to come back and even retain your position once your week-long ban is up.
I said as much, multiple times, in the hopes that you'd understand that it's a very real possibility for you to lose the position if you continue to abuse it and your fellow players, and that we were giving you one last chance to try to make things right.
GM anonymity? Strange way of putting it. As I said above, and before, no other details are going to be shared in order to protect those that reported things to us.
This is standard procedure to try to prevent retaliation from whomever got banned, towards the people that reported them.
The problem is that I told you where you went wrong, I even italicized and bolded things to help get the point across about what you needed to change, of your behavior.
Fairly defend yourself? You mean argue and try to give excuses for it to try to absolve yourself of things you did wrong?
Sounds like a waste of time when the crucial details were given to you, and our expectations were laid out in full and you chose to ignore those too.
Quote:At the end of the day, whatever will happen will happen, and I'll move on, just like everyone else will at one point or another. However, I want to know what I did wrong in full (rather than one part), where I can improve, and what exactly I should personally do. Credit where credit is due; I was given a little bit of information, but even there, I still don't feel like I have enough to work with. It upsets me, even angers me, that things came to this, especially when there were a plethora of other options out there.
I sincerely hope you do, and that you recover and focus on what I outlined for you, that you needed to improve upon.
I agree, there were plenty of better options than ignoring your co-leader and pretending they don't exist, and undermining their IC and keeping them out of the loop OOCly on things they should very much be aware of. (Gatekeeping)
You could have been 'that guy' ICly and emoted ignoring them or turning your nose up in some way. But that would get in the way of your IC of being 'the good guy', so I guess it would be far easier to ignore and let others facilitate any kind of communication and pretend you had no idea they were even speaking.
Almost any other course of action would have been a better choice, to be frank.
There's no excuse for ignoring people that try to interact with you ICly.
Quote:And then, to hear that the ban of Hated and the temp ban of myself are a part of why some people are leaving? It makes me distraught, even a bit sick, to hear that. We're supposed to be a community, and a community is supposed to have the backs of one another and communicate. I'm not going to say I'm perfect; heck, no one is, and to say that you are is narcissistic.
I agree, it's very unfortunate that things played out that way. While the bans were justified, that particular consequence of them was never our intention and not anything we could have predicted.
While I hope that those that left do come back at some point, I realize and honor that it's entirely their choice. I wish them well, all the same.
Quote: However, if there's an issue that involves me, I want to improve and fix upon it so it doesn't happen again, if possible, assuming there is anything I can do. Everything I do in the game I do when I icly find out. Sure, I've heard and seen things on the ooc end, but I waited until I heard about them icly in some form to act on them because that's not fair, otherwise. That's a trend I intend to keep because it's important to ensure fairness and fun of the game. Heck, I made an entire other thread about the issue because there was reasonable belief that things were being brought into ic from ooc. Regardless, in the words of Joe Dispenza, "The hardest part about change is not making the same choices you made the day before."
I would hope trying to improve yourself would include self-reflection, and not a demand for details that would leave other players vulnerable.
It's understandable to some extent to want to know the specific details of where you went wrong, but not once did you admit to even the possibility that you did wrong during the course of that sit down that I had with you.
Nor did you give even the barest hint of any intention to remedy any of the wrongs I laid out for you.
No apology, no reflection, only the demand for specific details so you could argue your case.
Like it wasn't a possibility in your mind that you had ever done anything wrong. Something that is humanly impossible to begin with, and wildly not the case here.
Quote:At the end of the day, even if I'm not unbanned, all I ask is that I'm informed of issues when possible so I can iron it out if there is anything, or if not, then I can ensure with a GM that we're on the same page.
I'll end this by saying that no, you will not be unbanned until your week is up.
None of this appeal has shown any kind of accountability, self-reflection, nor recognition of any wrongdoing on your part.
All you've done here is paint yourself as the victim, as you've continued to do during our lengthy conversation and elsewhere afterward.
See you in a week, and good luck on the path of keeping your leadership position. It looks like you'll need it if you keep doing the same old routine.