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+--- Thread: Impure Element with Lightning enhanced skills? (/showthread.php?tid=9608)
Impure Element with Lightning enhanced skills? - renowner - 09-21-2022
Impure element recently was nerfed to also apply to skills that benefited from elemental attack. I've noticed however that lightning enhanced skills still gain their bonus lightning attack damage on critical, but never force you to take the null damage to use them.
I personally feel that lightning enhanced skills are still extremely powerful, and if you're gaining an extra 60 lightning attack with impure element,that it should still hurt the caster.
But that's just my opinion, what do all of you think? The issue is that, if they DON'T critical, then you're taking the damage for no reason. But at the same time, if they DO critical, you're doing a bajillion extra points of damage. That usually isn't even lightning element, so rarely resisted.
RE: Impure Element with Lightning enhanced skills? - Snake - 09-21-2022
Lightning Criticals could proc Impure Element's null damage, I agree. But that, and only that situation in particular.
RE: Impure Element with Lightning enhanced skills? - Poruku - 09-22-2022
DH/VA is pretty amazing from what I've tried out in test. Though I don't know if I would call it overpowered. You aren't double-dipping that 60 lightning attack, only getting it once, and only on crits. Compare that to a verglas/VA with the ice attack bonus. Or a dancer. It honestly seems fine to me, if a bit strong.
Is there a specific situation or reason you would call for this nerf?
RE: Impure Element with Lightning enhanced skills? - renowner - 09-22-2022
Considering i've seen a DH/VA lose all of 2 fights out of like. . fifty, i'd say it certainly warrents checking into.
But I have said this at least one hundred times, and I feel i'll have to say it at last a hundred times more.
Impure element is broken, breaks all the game's balance, and needs to go!
And yes, the reasons for the nerf would be: Its fairly easy to stack up enough crit to always crit even a heavy faith/luck build. So now you're just getting free 100% Lightning attack added to all of your hits.
Roundtrip is the worst offender, barring void refract nonsense, because despite each hit being half damage, it still gains the full lightning attack to each hit. So it can end up doing the full damage +200% lightning attack if both crit.
But I also don't feel like every strong thing should get gutted just for being strong.
And there's other similar issues in the game, like Ymir fists and verglass getting massive ice attack.
Summoner Evokes, Dancer skills, Lightning criticals, Verglasses, Devil Tome spam. . . Anything that really seems to just do absurd damage is either an excel weapon, or abusing impure element.
Impure element needs to go.
But since that doesn't seem to ever be happening, I feel it should at least be consistent.
And for it to be consistent, it needs to hurt lightning critical skills users, who gain the bonus damage to their attacks.
RE: Impure Element with Lightning enhanced skills? - InsainArcaneBirdbrain - 09-22-2022
(09-22-2022, 05:52 PM)renowner Wrote: Considering i've seen a DH/VA lose all of 2 fights out of like. . fifty, i'd say it certainly warrents checking into.
But I have said this at least one hundred times, and I feel i'll have to say it at last a hundred times more.
Impure element is broken, breaks all the game's balance, and needs to go!
And yes, the reasons for the nerf would be: Its fairly easy to stack up enough crit to always crit even a heavy faith/luck build. So now you're just getting free 100% Lightning attack added to all of your hits.
Roundtrip is the worst offender, barring void refract nonsense, because despite each hit being half damage, it still gains the full lightning attack to each hit. So it can end up doing the full damage +200% lightning attack if both crit.
But I also don't feel like every strong thing should get gutted just for being strong.
And there's other similar issues in the game, like Ymir fists and verglass getting massive ice attack.
Summoner Evokes, Dancer skills, Lightning criticals, Verglasses, Devil Tome spam. . . Anything that really seems to just do absurd damage is either an excel weapon, or abusing impure element.
Impure element needs to go.
But since that doesn't seem to ever be happening, I feel it should at least be consistent.
And for it to be consistent, it needs to hurt lightning critical skills users, who gain the bonus damage to their attacks.
Impure element costs you an accessory slot that you could be using for an ele res item or knight ring tbf, and is easily circumventable with cinders or other forms of delayed/roundstart/outsped actions. I think it's honestly fine after the changes made to it, though yes, lightning crits *should* apply the self damage.
The actual issue you brought up here was one I was already somewhat weary of from before the DH rework, and that's how lightning crits interact with soldier/DH skills. Roundtrip lightning critting twice for its full value is likely an oversight, as that just causes it to drastically fly way past reasonable potency for a skill of its cost, ease of use, and range. DH worsens the issue here with martial lawbreaker, allowing you to use all the lightning crittable soldier skills with any weapon, on top of combination fighter which allows you to get more of these flat mods per turn. I'd normally just say "build crit evade", but most non-basic/priest/summoner/BK builds can't afford that now that Luck is nearly useless for non-basic or non-lightning users.
I believe the correct fix here is not to bonk impure ele again, but to simply halve the bonus on roundtrip to account for the double hit, and to have combination fighter scale down the flat mod lightning crits give as well.
RE: Impure Element with Lightning enhanced skills? - Autumn - 09-22-2022
Lightning Criticals are effectively adding lightning ATK into the equation, that is undeniable. They are also adding a lot of damage in general to lightning criticals for no cost, a complaint more commonly associated with the previous iterations of Impure Element with elemental scaling skills.
Lightning Criticals are also a common target for the landscape of the game should damage start pushing too far again, they do not rely on SWA like most typical weapon setups do, making them completely an outlier when it comes to weapon skill balance sometimes. Base Chaser isn't really all that special, but suddenly its insanely strong with lightning critical effects, I wonder why that is?
It should be looked at, yes.
RE: Impure Element with Lightning enhanced skills? - Shujin - 09-22-2022
I still think Lightning critical could do half the damage it does now, and still be the best elemental enchantment. Thats how far above it is over the rest.
I also do not think Impure element itself is the issue here. its certainly not helping the issue but thats just because each crit adds 100% of the lightning atk. gets not reduced by DHs combos, but does get amplified by stuff like Chargemind.
My vote still goes to Lightning crit itself being the issue. I do not mind it getting the impure element damage treatment but even setups without VA are a league above the rest.
RE: Impure Element with Lightning enhanced skills? - renowner - 09-23-2022
If demon hunter's combo fighter is actually not reducing the damage of lightning criticals, then that's insane.