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+--- Thread: LE and Traits (/showthread.php?tid=9734)
LE and Traits - Yashatari - 11-08-2022
First, Class traits. They give +1 to [Class + promoted variants]
I'd like to suggest changing these to a Legend Extension option, [Class mastery] ill call it for lack of a better name.
As a trait, You grab it, Get your +1 to class, spend the point, etc. But you're probably going to LE back to level 1, you lose the trait, but you retain that +1 skill point effectively giving you +1 free trait point.
Or, Just remove them entirely. Most classes have been reworked from 5/5 to 3/3, Do we even need them anymore? Plus humans racial exists.
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I'd like to also suggest [Weapon telepathy] requirement be changed slightly. Fai/Wil/Apt to Fai/Apt.
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I'd like to suggest a Trait to proc [Intervention] talent under the [Devotion] Section, Without an active prayer.
I'll call it [National Pride] with the same 5% chance to reduce damage at the trade off of "Reducing damage by half your scaled faith"
RE: LE and Traits - Blissey - 11-08-2022
If I'm understanding the first part of your suggestion correctly, you want to lock the extra SP we get from Class Point Traits (such as Spirit Caller for Summoners, as an example) behind Legend Extension and Legend Inks. It's a no from me, especially with the added stipulations of nixing the traits altogether to make way for this proposal. It just doesn't make much sense; most classes also weren't reworked to 3/3, by the way. And just because human racials exist doesn't mean other races benefit from it like humans do. That was in fact added to bring humans up to height with other races who more benefit from their racials.
Legend Extension already gatekeeps some stuff that it shouldn't, and grinding is usually boring and a slog. The traits are fine as is in my book. The only benefit I see is having extra trait points to use, but most people have an overabundance of TP anyway.
RE: LE and Traits - PantherPrincess - 11-08-2022
I'll be frank. There is absolutely no point in the first idea you suggested and in fact I'd reckon just about every player grabs those traits regardless of race or class because of the simple fact that certain classes contain so many skills. Even using destiny doesn't guarantee you can grab all the skills (i.e. Void Assassin). This is a no from me as well as the third suggestion too.
Now the second suggestion seems much more plausible. I do think weapon telepathy should use either only WIL or FAI, not both.
RE: LE and Traits - Yashatari - 11-09-2022
"you want to lock the extra SP we get from Class Point Traits (such as Spirit Caller for Summoners, as an example) behind Legend Extension and Legend Inks. It's a no from me"
Yes, I do. You reset your trait points, but you retain the skill point spent. you're 36/35 instead of 35/35 and it doesnt reset your skills because thatd be an exploit to having to use fruit of forgetfullness. You're already exploiting the system because you get a free skill point basically.
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"It just doesn't make much sense; most classes also weren't reworked to 3/3, by the way"
Black knight got the treatment, and recently kensei did too. I didn't say all, It was a hyperbole.
Honestly could just do that with all promoted classes, but that's for a different thread imo.
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"And just because human racials exist doesn't mean other races benefit from it like humans do. That was in fact added to bring humans up to height with other races who more benefit from their racials."
If that was added to bring humans up to height, Why are we undermining them with a trait making their racial effectivly pointless? Humans are still rarely played, and its mostly for fancy eyeball jutsu or for rp purposes.
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"Legend Extension already gatekeeps some stuff that it shouldn't, and grinding is usually boring and a slog"
Then why hasn't anyone suggested to remove Legend extension in the past decade? Or.... Idk, An increase to how many you get when you LE? Yes, I hate it too, Everyone does. You dont have asago quests on korvara making it even more grueling too.
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"There is absolutely no point in the first idea you suggested and in fact I'd reckon just about every player grabs those traits regardless of race or class because of the simple fact that certain classes contain so many skills"
Yes, I grab them too. and you're wrong, There is a point. The system is bloated and full of many flaws. I want to fix them.
RE: LE and Traits - Blissey - 11-09-2022
Quote:Yes, I do. You reset your trait points, but you retain the skill point spent. you're 36/35 instead of 35/35 and it doesnt reset your skills because thatd be an exploit to having to use fruit of forgetfullness. You're already exploiting the system because you get a free skill point basically.
A fix to this is making sure Fruit of Traitlessness doesn't remove Class SP bonus traits and locks them in. You don't have to gatekeep it behind Legend Extending.
Quote:Black knight got the treatment, and recently kensei did too. I didn't say all, It was a hyperbole.
Honestly could just do that with all promoted classes, but that's for a different thread imo.
You wrote most, I also wrote most. I never said all, and I didn't identify that you said all.
Quote:If that was added to bring humans up to height, Why are we undermining them with a trait making their racial effectivly pointless? Humans are still rarely played, and its mostly for fancy eyeball jutsu or for rp purposes.
Recall that Quick To Master does give humans +2 SP on top of +2 Skill Slots. Also, Profession gives them a free History Trait (see: Mage, Myrmidion, etc). This isn't really undermining them. Just as other races can fetch these traits, so too can humans, and they in fact slightly over-shadow races in this specific category: more skill slots, more skill points.
Quote:Then why hasn't anyone suggested to remove Legend extension in the past decade? Or.... Idk, An increase to how many you get when you LE? Yes, I hate it too, Everyone does. You dont have asago quests on korvara making it even more grueling too.
They have but it's a system Dev worked very hard on and not many of those suggestions were seen as substantial in his eyes to generate change. Please recall that the suggestions forum is scores of pages long, and there was an old forum even before this one, not everything was retained. If you want to fix this issue, we need to fix what you want this issue to be fixed with -- and that's Legend Extension, which is yet another thread on the feature to be made, I'm afraid. I personally believe in identifying a problem and then providing a solution if I believe there is to be a problem, but since this isn't a 'fix Legend Extension' thread, I won't go too deep into it right now.
Honestly you seem a bit too combative, so this'll be it from me. Hopefully you manage to work out what you want, but I still don't see any of these changes as presented in your original post to be necessary or fixing the problem. (Clarification: I'm talking about the first point presented in the OP, not every other suggestions offered below it. I have no opinion on the weapon telepathy being changed or intervention being changed)
RE: LE and Traits - Poruku - 11-10-2022
Bro I hate LE, there is no way I am grinding for 1 sp, it's already enough of a pain to grind for core stats. The whole trait system honestly needs a rework it's deeply flawed as is and this solution isn't really fixing anything. +1 sp traits are just one in a massive list of bloat traits that need to be looked at as an overall issue imo
RE: LE and Traits - FaeLenx - 11-10-2022
Fixing a 'not a problem' with a problem.
RE: LE and Traits - Snake - 11-12-2022
Not really sane, I think.