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+--- Thread: NERF MONK (/showthread.php?tid=974)
NERF MONK - MegaBlues - 03-27-2015
Clickbait title aside, most classes have weaknesses or shortcomings. They rely on hit, can only target one damage type, or can be debilitated by a single status effect.
Monks, on the other hand:
Can increase their movement
Attack and close nearly any distance map-wide
Knockdown
Autohit against Defense
Autohit against Resistance
Innately boost Hit
Innately boost Dodge
Passively boost Crit
Self-Heal
Ally-Heal
Blind
Decrease Defense/Resistance
Cure status effects
Nullify two/three hits of damage
Ignore Knockdown
Yes, half of these are an issue with Martial Artist, the most robust base class in the game, and Monk only makes it worse.
Honestly, I don't have any good ideas for how to bring them in line with the other classes, aside from plain removing skills/making them drastically weaker in power or effectiveness/forcing a hit check. So, thoughts?
Re: NERF MONK - Fern - 03-27-2015
I'd suggest making it so you can't use Meditate twice in the same round, but the 3M cost remains.
Re: NERF MONK - Grandpa - 03-27-2015
Should go about nerfing Martial Artist before going for Monk. Seeing as Martial Artist is the source of more than half of their skills and is more or less one of the strongest base classes now. It's better than Monk in some aspects and some other promoted classes, even.
Along with the meditation being decreased to once per round, you could possibly have a kip-up cooldown. I would also suggest doing something about Cleanse Body, but I'm not sure what. It makes a number of Black Knight skills pointless and is honestly just a bit too strong for a base class.
Re: NERF MONK - Rendar - 03-27-2015
Geldoren forces a basic attack against the enemy to reduce defenses. The other monk skills should as well. They all have debilitating effects or scale off of 1, or more stats to deal their damage. They scale ridiculously well and support a wide variety of characters, if only because Monk's AID can heal yourself for WIL+rank, move you a tile away, anddd generate ki. Tag that along with something that regens a lot of FP and you have a pretty defensive, tanky wall that won't go down. You also end up wasting momntum to move to them unless you have ranged option or a hanging-esque skill to attack and move at the same time.
Their cleanse body heals a variety of nasty effects whilst, I think, providing immunity for a few turns to said things. Ignoring Knockdown is already OP in it's own right, don't need me there to tell you why that's OP. +dodge/hit for wielding certain things is cool. Except when it's not because holy hell an archer will probably never hit Quinn without quinn getting some heavy dodge penalties.
Re: NERF MONK - Neus - 03-27-2015
Posters in this thread:
![[Image: 613px-TheZFightersVegetaSagaK.png]](http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/gameguy23/613px-TheZFightersVegetaSagaK.png)
Re: NERF MONK - Rendar - 03-27-2015
![[Image: hqdefault.jpg]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wa8kHo97teo/hqdefault.jpg)
![[Image: 5seconds.png]](http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/tanookikuribo/Tanooki%202/5seconds.png)
![[Image: krillin_gets_owned_by_vegeta586-d61ujf3.gif]](http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/105/c/c/krillin_gets_owned_by_vegeta586-d61ujf3.gif)
![[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/K1ZorueDb4M/maxresdefault.jpg)
![[Image: Chiaotzu_dead.PNG]](http://images.wikia.com/dragonball/images/2/29/Chiaotzu_dead.PNG)
![[Image: Come+one+guys+he+only+gets+owned+so+much...146992.jpg]](http://new4.fjcdn.com/comments/Come+one+guys+he+only+gets+owned+so+much+because+_5cd1e9f83bece69f8e41f55409146992.jpg)
Man I'm so glad I can be as strong as the Z-fighters... Oh wait..
Re: NERF MONK - Ranylyn - 03-29-2015
*reads first post*
Find me a monk with the stats to back ALL that up. Please do. A monk with enough Strength and Will to use decently powerful autohits against both defenses, while having the skill to reliably hit AND the Cel to reliably dodge. Impossible? No. But very unlikely. Plus, their dodge bonus only works when unarmored, so you lose out on the potential benefits of other armor types. You make it sound so OP, but in reality, most monk skills consume Ki, which lowers the crit and removes the DR. It's not all that.
Closest I ever got, at about level 40: https://i.gyazo.com/c812e9c164385ea2419d57ae0184f48a.png
Note the major crippling weakness: autohits. Monk's gimmick is it can work well with anything due to using so many stats, but it doesn't dominate.
IMO, Monk is fine, MA just needs a little toning down. My suggestions:
- Lower the evasion of Unarmored Prowess/ Protection from Arrows to 10% and 20% respectively.
- Place a Toggle and cost on Kip-Up, have it consume something to work, like FP or Stamina. Toggle if you'd rather eat knockdown.
- Cleanse Body is a little -TOO- good compared to just about any other ailment remover in the game. Level limits on ailments?
- Maybe raise Shukuchi's FP cost to 10-15? As is, there's no reason not to use it EVERY turn. Give a reason to limit it's use.
IMO, the attacks are fine as is (in fact, I feel the FP costs are too high to justify using them over normals most of the time) and Meditate is also fine. I've noticed people love to focus on offense, which means healing is annoying to them, but we musn't invalidate a more defensive/sustainable style just because it annoyed some people in PVP or something.
Re: NERF MONK - Sarinpa1 - 03-29-2015
Despite posting loads of irrelevent and useless information as per habit, Ranylyn raises a point I've mentioned earlier when this was discussed.
Monk may be versatile, but they cannot exactly use everything effectively without good balanced stats.
I don't agree with any of proposed changes aside from their healing moves to be unusable twice in same round. I'd like to see them be inferior to actual healing magic.
Also I don't seem to have monk unlocked, perhaps Terra strike could use bit of revision in terms of damage output, but I get the strange feeling it has quite a large FP cost. If that's the case, unnecesary to touch it imho.
Re: NERF MONK - Ranylyn - 03-29-2015
If their healing is to be nerfed, I'd rather see reduced scaling and bonuses over inability to be used twice. While monk can be tacked on at level 60 on a character with 80 will and use Aid to good effect, you wouldn't possibly have the strength/skill to use most of their skillset. And if you somehow managed 80 skill (theoretically possible, but very unlikely, with the 105% skill growth achievable by Phenex/Zerans/Tannites/Raid Mechs) to make meditate amazing, you wouldn't have the Strength (and possibly Will) to back their attacks up.
As well, I fail to see how anything I said was irrelevant. I mentioned PVP because healing is balanced for PVE and PVE MA's would suffer greatly if it was limited to once per turn. I've been seeing a lot of complaining about healing lately, hence why I mention it at all.
Re: NERF MONK - Sarinpa1 - 03-29-2015
You fail to account you don't operate with base stats in combat.