[JoseJoseRSD]

Grindylows are a great mob, all the ice based monsters are great of example of how to make something with clear strength and clear weaknesses.

As someone who plays Ghost, I love this concept, the 90% damage reduction is completely fair, what should be brought in exchange? should ice monsters just be like every other monster that you can pushover without even thinking in any other thing? no, this is the kind of mobs we need to make the PvE more interesting.

What I find flawed is the fact that they do not have as much drawbacks for their strength, Why dont they get fire weakness regardless of their burrow? it would make sense to apply this to all ice monsters, fire is not rare, that is fair, but at least is the most sensical drawback that they could get without letting everyone just push them over like EVERY OTHER KIND OF MOBS.

I appreciate this concept and I understand what is Dev is intending to do, if you do not care of the bare minimun nothing about the enemy does, why you should be surprised that he is wrecking you anyway? people just want to PvE like nothing, then once they are done, they want to complain about how boring and unchallenging is PvE, so yeah, THE ONLY PROBLEM ARE TOO MANY STRENGTHS WITH NO DRAWBACKS, BUT THEY SHOULD NOT BE STANDARDIZED TO BE LIKE ANY OTHER MOB IN PVE, AKA, MOBS THAT YOU CAN BEAT BRAINLESSLY REGARDLESS OF YOUR BUILD.

[Autumn]

Making monsters into a checklist instead of improving upon their AI doesn't actually create a challenge, this is a concept not new to players either, some players getting into GM Events face off against monsters with literally the same criteria:

A) Do you have x skill to cheese monster?
B) Do you have x item to Cheese monster if you do not have the previously mentioned skill?

If neither of these are met, then I guess you just lose or have to run away.

[Akame]

Grindylows are a great mob, all the ice based monsters are great of example of how to make something with clear strength and clear weaknesses.

As someone who plays Ghost, I love this concept, the 90% damage reduction is completely fair, what should be brought in exchange? should ice monsters just be like every other monster that you can pushover without even thinking in any other thing? no, this is the kind of mobs we need to make the PvE more interesting.

What I find flawed is the fact that they do not have as much drawbacks for their strength, Why dont they get fire weakness regardless of their burrow? it would make sense to apply this to all ice monsters, fire is not rare, that is fair, but at least is the most sensical drawback that they could get without letting everyone just push them over like EVERY OTHER KIND OF MOBS.

I appreciate this concept and I understand what is Dev is intending to do, if you do not care of the bare minimun nothing about the enemy does, why you should be surprised that he is wrecking you anyway? people just want to PvE like nothing, then once they are done, they want to complain about how boring and unchallenging is PvE, so yeah, THE ONLY PROBLEM ARE TOO MANY STRENGTHS WITH NO DRAWBACKS, BUT THEY SHOULD NOT BE STANDARDIZED TO BE LIKE ANY OTHER MOB IN PVE, AKA, MOBS THAT YOU CAN BEAT BRAINLESSLY REGARDLESS OF YOUR BUILD.

90% reduction is not fair to new players who decide to try-out their first BDP experience, just to get one-shot from across the field. They'd only have like, 5 move and 6 momentum total to even attempt to reach Grindylows. Nor is it fair to several builds who don't have access to airborne, or stack earth ATK.
It's also a little odd that they have reductions that exceed that of a max level Alraune's Charm skill, a boss monster that's still far more easier battle against.
The easy fix is that their burrow reduction scale off their level, being the max at LV 70. Or like.. programming Grindylows so they can't burrow until round 2, or 3.

I'm honestly just waiting on Dev's word though...

[Raigen.Convict]

As was earlier suggested, I say allow burrow, and steinhunt to be present only in level 35+ icebloods. By that point you normally have either sufficient flee chance, ice res, knock up , earth damage or speed to deal with them. I suggested steinhunt because if you have no party this is a literal 'I win' button for the tyrant without a way to bypass frozens 'old charm' mechanic.

[Dezark]

I agree with Akame suggestion on making the DR scale off level to a max being 70% (or higher if a BDP of a higher level spawns?) or changing the AI so they hold off on burrowing until a certain round; even having them operate similar to fireblood enemies who gain the ability to ignore fire absorb at a certain level can work in some way. It would make things easier particularly on those who don't have access to what may be required.

Beyond that the past requests in making it so there more options to uproot them is also on request, knocking them back, down, etc. holding some effect would make things immensely easier for a class that has skills for such compared to a knock up to actually kill the mob.

[Neus]

Making monsters into a checklist instead of improving upon their AI doesn't actually create a challenge

This is a flawed argument, monsters are going to be inherently weaker to players because they don't have the benefit of flexibility, or access to equipment, and so on. Do you think you could present a challenge to players if you were the one controlling that party of jammers? The answer is probably not, and if you couldn't do it, I don't see how you could reasonably expect an AI to do so either.

Putting stress on one of the PC's key strengths in their flexibility and multitude of options is one of the more reliable ways of presenting a challenge. It increases the value of certain skills and makes it more beneficial to have a diverse set of skills in your party, instead of smacking everything with the most minimal effort. Plus, Grindys are an outlier - it's not like many other mobs in the game have answers demanded of them, so it's not like you're being overtaxed for answers because you need one for every mob.

[Autumn]

- it's not like many other mobs in the game have answers demanded of them, so it's not like you're being overtaxed for answers because you need one for every mob.

This is true, nothing gets comparable, not even Soldier Kraboids which require a knockdown or access to magic damage to take down within a reliable amount of time, they don't threaten you with a lot of damage though, Grindylows chunk through even heavy RES tanks with Ice Spikes, like even a 60 RES doriad void assassin probably will still get chunked for over 100 damage, if not more.

My previous statement about AI I realize is a bit idealistic, it was more of a generalist reply to Jose than a jab at the monsters in SL2 so I apologize if that was offensive, some monsters other than grindylow can be a problem for unprepared parties like Wings of Fire, as it does a lot of damage and has enough RES to snuff out any magical based attack.

[Trexmaster]

It's a fair argument that the insane DR they currently get is fairly lopsided for a regular mob you can encounter anywhere. It's more of an artificial challenge when you introduce mechanics that essentially force you to pick up certain abilities or you will almost definitely lose. There isn't much thought to it beyond 'oh, I need an airborne causing effect or heavy earth damage, or else I can no longer PvE without risk of death or wasting my time'. Moving before them and killing them round 0 also works, but that counters anything with a health bar.

Personally I think the fairest adjustment:
Make it like similar monster abilities that can grant insane DRs. Have it start at like, 10-20% base, then add its level to the DR% it gets for burrow. This way lower level Grindylows can still be managed by players without any means to counter their DR, while higher level ones still demand the correct response.

(the only ones that exist are only phys(Ethereal/Krab Helmet) and Grindys get total dr that's higher AND a flat number??)

[Neus]

I do agree that the lower level experience versus Grindylows needs adjustment and will probably change that. My comments are more geared towards level capped/near level capped characters.