03-18-2021, 04:56 PM
It's that time again!
With balancefu about to be reviewed by Dev again, I figure it's as good a time as ever to write up my personal grievances with vampires so that they can hopefully be put in a better place.
To give an idea on the state of vampires, right now most vampire players agree the best way to play a vampire... is by not being a vampire. People would rather take fasting vampire and use greymists as an inherent, 5 round cd heal than actually bother with vampire mechanics because it's better than actually trying to make the race work.
Vampire Skills
First and foremost, you should not have to spend skill slots just to be able to use silvermists and lunar lunatism. The recent Homunculi races are able to use their skills without having to burn skill slots on them. It feels bad wanting to use your vampire abilities but having to sacrifice precious skill slots that are generally much more important than either silvermists or LL.
Banquet
Banquet, as it currently exists, is actually probably fine. I think it could stand to either have better weapon stats, such as more hit and crit, but the scaling is good for what it is and it acts as an additional weapon that can crit and give you a third action in combat while using a two handed weapon.
Life Drain
I currently have another thread up about Life Drain so I'll be brief, but ultimately I think Life Drain should have more range than it currently has now given it's mostly used by mages. Mages do not particularly like being in melee range most of the time, and this skill has also seen a hefty nerf to its damage making it even more fair it get some range. It should also restore essence in some capacity so that mage vampires get ways to regenerate essence in battle.
Lunar Lunatism
Where do I start with Lunar Lunatism... it's a mixed bag, and has the makings of a good skill, but it falls short due to problems that stem from Vampire as a whole and its lack of cohesion. The changes made so Lunar Lunatism lasts as long as you can maintain its essence cost or until you de-activate it were very nice. However, Lunar Lunatism also suffers in part from its effects scaling off of SAN similar to other racial abilities. This is mostly a problem because a large part of Vampire in its current state is wanting to basic attack with banquet to maintain essence mid combat.
Basic Attacking proficiently is hard enough as it is. It's very stat intensive outside of daggers, and most of the time you simply can't afford to invest points in something like SAN. This means that LL will largely be useless to Vampires, as on top of it needing to pass a status inflict check (which uses WIL, another stat basic attackers typically take none or very little of), the LVs of your statuses will likely be a measly 5 or 6. All of this comes at the cost of your essence being taxed every round as well as inflicting a 50 (40% with trait) holy damage modifier on yourself, as well as a 25% light weakness and outing yourself as a vampire to whomever may be around.
Other races have shown us SAN investments don't have to take away from your build, and that you can experience your race's benefits/uniqueness to its fullest without having to feel like your build is completely gimped. In some cases, these races' benefits end up making for better versions of builds possible than those who aren't members of that race. For example, Redtails and Corbies pull off basic attacking much better than other races due to their racial benefits, and both of them invest SAN to improve those benefits.
My proposed solution to this for a long time has been having SAN also increase things like the Vampire's Hit, Crit, and perhaps even Status Inflict while they're under the effect of lunar lunatism. This makes it so that outside of Lunar Lunatism, your build will still be lackluster, but it turns Lunar Lunatism into a state much more fitting of a Vampire going all out. When they enter it, that SAN they invested will give them the hit and crit the vampire usually desperately wants/needs for its basic attacking aspects, and it would give them status inflict to have a better chance of Lunar Lunatism's debuffs working in their favor. This also ties together the Banquet bite traits that Vampire has, which normally can't be afforded due to not being able to take SAN.
Also, in regard to the individual lunar lunatism traits, the FAI based trait could stand to be tied to a different stat, such as WIL or GUI. It cleansing Fear, Hesitation, and Charm and providing immunity to them is a very nice boon to basic attack vampires... which have no business taking FAI pretty much ever. For classes that would be stacking FAI such as priest, getting rid of Fear, Hesitation or Charm is almost worthless to them.
Sanguine Crest
This passive is kind of a joke. When you activate Sanguine Crest, you get 2 STR, 2 WIL, 2 DEF, 2 CEL, and 2 SKI. In exchange, you now have a 40 - 50% holy damage penalty, a 25% light weakness, and all non-designated forms of healing are only 75% effective, with Mercalan healing being 0% effective. Designated healing consists of Life Drain, Vampirism effects such as from weapons like Fellgrant Drinker, and Silvermists. This is a very small list of things you get full healing from, and while 75% effectiveness isn't anywhere near as bad as old vampire, you still definitely feel it. Oh, you also get the ability to activate Lunar Lunatism too as well as 25% dark resistance.
None of that is worth it in the slightest. Even if Lunar Lunatism itself got buffed to something similar to what I suggested, it still wouldn't be worth it. To start with the stat buff... it's a slap in the face. The reality of the matter is that 9/10 these stat bonuses will actually do nothing at all. If you're a tank, you likely have enough scaled defense already that the DEF bonus will not add any scaled DEF or just 1 at best. For evade strategies, the CEL would have the same issue probably, ending up not giving any bonus evade due to diminishing returns, or just 1. In fact, all of these stats follow a similar problem for builds that they would otherwise be useful to. On top of that, these stats do not synergize well in particular. A tank getting 2 cel 99% of the time changes nothing.
If you look at races like Kaels, Corbies, and Redtails, they get stat bonuses that would make anyone laugh at Crest's buffs. With traits and chimera prayer in particular for Kaels, they can get upwards of 5 in a collection of stats that all synergize together just from hitting 90% HP, which this doubling at 75% or so. Corbies can easily get 30+ hit with only SAN investment. Redtails just need to equip an already decent accessory with some SAN investment to get absurd boosts in things like crit, evade, status inflict, etc. Notice that none of these races have real downsides. Certainly not on the level of what you get when you activate Crest as a Vampire.
My suggestions for Crest are as follows: Adding traits that the Vampire can pick to make their Crest bonus specialized and thus, be allowed a bigger stat buff. For example, a defensive trait that would make your crest bonus 5 DEF and 5 RES.
Alternatively, Sanguine Crest could stack in LV with each proc since it's already LV based--increasing the stat bonus and also increasing the weakness associated with it.
Lastly, Sanguine Crest could increase things like Hit/Crit/etc. rather than raw stats such as STR and DEF.
Closing
I think that the recent update to Vampires from the big race rebalance patch made Vampires more thematic, more flavorful and it was a step in the right direction in some ways. It did create more problems than it solved imo, such as making a race that wants to accomplish things that simply can't be done together due to the limitations of stats. It also turned Vampire's 'benefits' into those that are even less deserving of the penalties it gets. I do not think it would take much to get them to a spot where they feel good to play, and where they wouldn't be overpowered either.
With balancefu about to be reviewed by Dev again, I figure it's as good a time as ever to write up my personal grievances with vampires so that they can hopefully be put in a better place.
To give an idea on the state of vampires, right now most vampire players agree the best way to play a vampire... is by not being a vampire. People would rather take fasting vampire and use greymists as an inherent, 5 round cd heal than actually bother with vampire mechanics because it's better than actually trying to make the race work.
Vampire Skills
First and foremost, you should not have to spend skill slots just to be able to use silvermists and lunar lunatism. The recent Homunculi races are able to use their skills without having to burn skill slots on them. It feels bad wanting to use your vampire abilities but having to sacrifice precious skill slots that are generally much more important than either silvermists or LL.
Banquet
Banquet, as it currently exists, is actually probably fine. I think it could stand to either have better weapon stats, such as more hit and crit, but the scaling is good for what it is and it acts as an additional weapon that can crit and give you a third action in combat while using a two handed weapon.
Life Drain
I currently have another thread up about Life Drain so I'll be brief, but ultimately I think Life Drain should have more range than it currently has now given it's mostly used by mages. Mages do not particularly like being in melee range most of the time, and this skill has also seen a hefty nerf to its damage making it even more fair it get some range. It should also restore essence in some capacity so that mage vampires get ways to regenerate essence in battle.
Lunar Lunatism
Where do I start with Lunar Lunatism... it's a mixed bag, and has the makings of a good skill, but it falls short due to problems that stem from Vampire as a whole and its lack of cohesion. The changes made so Lunar Lunatism lasts as long as you can maintain its essence cost or until you de-activate it were very nice. However, Lunar Lunatism also suffers in part from its effects scaling off of SAN similar to other racial abilities. This is mostly a problem because a large part of Vampire in its current state is wanting to basic attack with banquet to maintain essence mid combat.
Basic Attacking proficiently is hard enough as it is. It's very stat intensive outside of daggers, and most of the time you simply can't afford to invest points in something like SAN. This means that LL will largely be useless to Vampires, as on top of it needing to pass a status inflict check (which uses WIL, another stat basic attackers typically take none or very little of), the LVs of your statuses will likely be a measly 5 or 6. All of this comes at the cost of your essence being taxed every round as well as inflicting a 50 (40% with trait) holy damage modifier on yourself, as well as a 25% light weakness and outing yourself as a vampire to whomever may be around.
Other races have shown us SAN investments don't have to take away from your build, and that you can experience your race's benefits/uniqueness to its fullest without having to feel like your build is completely gimped. In some cases, these races' benefits end up making for better versions of builds possible than those who aren't members of that race. For example, Redtails and Corbies pull off basic attacking much better than other races due to their racial benefits, and both of them invest SAN to improve those benefits.
My proposed solution to this for a long time has been having SAN also increase things like the Vampire's Hit, Crit, and perhaps even Status Inflict while they're under the effect of lunar lunatism. This makes it so that outside of Lunar Lunatism, your build will still be lackluster, but it turns Lunar Lunatism into a state much more fitting of a Vampire going all out. When they enter it, that SAN they invested will give them the hit and crit the vampire usually desperately wants/needs for its basic attacking aspects, and it would give them status inflict to have a better chance of Lunar Lunatism's debuffs working in their favor. This also ties together the Banquet bite traits that Vampire has, which normally can't be afforded due to not being able to take SAN.
Also, in regard to the individual lunar lunatism traits, the FAI based trait could stand to be tied to a different stat, such as WIL or GUI. It cleansing Fear, Hesitation, and Charm and providing immunity to them is a very nice boon to basic attack vampires... which have no business taking FAI pretty much ever. For classes that would be stacking FAI such as priest, getting rid of Fear, Hesitation or Charm is almost worthless to them.
Sanguine Crest
This passive is kind of a joke. When you activate Sanguine Crest, you get 2 STR, 2 WIL, 2 DEF, 2 CEL, and 2 SKI. In exchange, you now have a 40 - 50% holy damage penalty, a 25% light weakness, and all non-designated forms of healing are only 75% effective, with Mercalan healing being 0% effective. Designated healing consists of Life Drain, Vampirism effects such as from weapons like Fellgrant Drinker, and Silvermists. This is a very small list of things you get full healing from, and while 75% effectiveness isn't anywhere near as bad as old vampire, you still definitely feel it. Oh, you also get the ability to activate Lunar Lunatism too as well as 25% dark resistance.
None of that is worth it in the slightest. Even if Lunar Lunatism itself got buffed to something similar to what I suggested, it still wouldn't be worth it. To start with the stat buff... it's a slap in the face. The reality of the matter is that 9/10 these stat bonuses will actually do nothing at all. If you're a tank, you likely have enough scaled defense already that the DEF bonus will not add any scaled DEF or just 1 at best. For evade strategies, the CEL would have the same issue probably, ending up not giving any bonus evade due to diminishing returns, or just 1. In fact, all of these stats follow a similar problem for builds that they would otherwise be useful to. On top of that, these stats do not synergize well in particular. A tank getting 2 cel 99% of the time changes nothing.
If you look at races like Kaels, Corbies, and Redtails, they get stat bonuses that would make anyone laugh at Crest's buffs. With traits and chimera prayer in particular for Kaels, they can get upwards of 5 in a collection of stats that all synergize together just from hitting 90% HP, which this doubling at 75% or so. Corbies can easily get 30+ hit with only SAN investment. Redtails just need to equip an already decent accessory with some SAN investment to get absurd boosts in things like crit, evade, status inflict, etc. Notice that none of these races have real downsides. Certainly not on the level of what you get when you activate Crest as a Vampire.
My suggestions for Crest are as follows: Adding traits that the Vampire can pick to make their Crest bonus specialized and thus, be allowed a bigger stat buff. For example, a defensive trait that would make your crest bonus 5 DEF and 5 RES.
Alternatively, Sanguine Crest could stack in LV with each proc since it's already LV based--increasing the stat bonus and also increasing the weakness associated with it.
Lastly, Sanguine Crest could increase things like Hit/Crit/etc. rather than raw stats such as STR and DEF.
Closing
I think that the recent update to Vampires from the big race rebalance patch made Vampires more thematic, more flavorful and it was a step in the right direction in some ways. It did create more problems than it solved imo, such as making a race that wants to accomplish things that simply can't be done together due to the limitations of stats. It also turned Vampire's 'benefits' into those that are even less deserving of the penalties it gets. I do not think it would take much to get them to a spot where they feel good to play, and where they wouldn't be overpowered either.
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