[Kameron8]

If we're not going to nerf what Vampires already have, then please, yes, make them actually give a flying fuck about Holy. Originally I wanted the Holy weakness to scale up with the light weakness for Vampires, so anything around the same line of thinking is a good addition in my opinion.

To put this in a little context, Vampires get:

1. Anywhere from 25-50 more stats than other races.
   
2. The ability to inflict level 50 charm and hesitation for 3 rounds (with the skill refreshing these debuffs for 3 rounds, making them last the duration of the cooldown), be immune to those status effects, inflict fear, and recover an infinite amount of FP.
   
3. Access to one of the best skills for sustaining against tanks, Life Drain.
   
4. The ability to heal for 200 health with Silvermists, if it was ever necessary. (Healing reduces per cast)
   
5. Upward to 66% dark resistance.

There is no world where these benefits are on equal ground to 33% light weakness, 25% holy weakness, and reduced healing from non-vampiric abilities. The lore dictates that Vampires generally make themselves obscure, hiding their race from people and manipulating others into doing the work for them. In practice, most Vampires couldn't care less about people knowing who they are, and anyone who might would be crushed in seconds by the obvious red-flag Lunar Lunatism.

Punish these people. If people want to use all of these grossly overtuned skills, give the rest of us the ability to exploit their recklessness with holy enchants. I'd argue that 50% isn't even enough at times -- even if we ignore the body shields that Vampires can get from being surrounded by charmed people, dealing 50% less damage and having a 50% chance to hesitate results in doing 25% effective damage to them. This means if you do not build a metric fuckton of status resist, Holy would need to quadruple your damage before you did the same average damage to a Vampire as a human.

The gist of this post is that high sanctity Vampires have way too much going for them, and promoting secretive behavior with enormous Holy weakness is a good thing.

[Exxy]

I hate to jump on band wagons without really contributing anything to the topic but Kameron said everything I would (and 4 paragraphs worth of content more on top of that).

It anything, they need a nerf; not more versatility.

-22

[Kameron8]

I hate to jump on band wagons without really contributing anything to the topic but Kameron said everything I would (and 4 paragraphs worth of content more on top of that).

It anything, they need a nerf; not more versatility.

-22

The original post suggested that Vampires be unable to take the trait that makes them stronger against Holy weapons if they stack Sanctity. It's a form of nerf, not extra versatility for them.

[Exxy]

I hate to jump on band wagons without really contributing anything to the topic but Kameron said everything I would (and 4 paragraphs worth of content more on top of that).

It anything, they need a nerf; not more versatility.

-22

The original post suggested that Vampires be unable to take the trait that makes them stronger against Holy weapons if they stack Sanctity. It's a form of nerf, not extra versatility for them.

It would allow the Race to be applicable to more scenarios (I.E. Playing against the trope that's always been known to work, throwing a monkey wrench into the equation, etc). Although it's a more restricted defining of the word I would still argue that it would ultimately make them more versatile in the grand scheme of things.

EDIT: OH- so this thread is for suggesting the restriction of an existing Trait for them. . . why was it ever thought to be a good thing for them to have that one to begin with?? Then, yes, fully supporting this thread (I apologize to Kameron and Spoops for misinterpreting this as a suggested Trait in my initial post). Over a certain amount of SAN the Trait should be nullified [strike]if not reversed[/strike].

[Autumn]

I hate to jump on band wagons without really contributing anything to the topic but Kameron said everything I would (and 4 paragraphs worth of content more on top of that).

It anything, they need a nerf; not more versatility.

-22

The original post suggested that Vampires be unable to take the trait that makes them stronger against Holy weapons if they stack Sanctity. It's a form of nerf, not extra versatility for them.

It would allow the Race to be applicable to more scenarios (I.E. Playing against the trope that's always been known to work, throwing a monkey wrench into the equation, etc). Although it's a more restricted defining of the word I would still argue that it would ultimately make them more versatile in the grand scheme of things.

It doesn't really make them more versatile, it's to punish the vampires who delve greatly into their huge strengths, whilst retaining the theme of the others who wouldn't be as 'evil'

[MegaBlues]

There should definitely be some limitation to having both high-powered Vampire racials as well as Brighter Darkness. Because guess what? Brighter Darkness also affects Drowned Woman weakness and Fallcall.

Perhaps Brighter Darkness could just start giving less Holy resistance as Sanctity increases, just as Vampire racials get stronger with more Sanctity.

So you guys can have your cake and eat it too, but you can't have the whole thing.

[Chaos]

I don't think the trait itself should be taken out of the game, there are a few vampires who could be shoe-horned into it, via through force, or by having no choice, some go vampire for the "Immortality" or the immunity to illnesses.

If Brighter Darkness has to be forced onto players who RP their vampires a certain way just to make the Trait see use, then Brighter Darkness shouldn't exist. It just becomes a system-supported 'fuck you, your RP makes you a vampiric punching bag' penalty, which is not how we should be managing 'goody-two-shoes vampire RP'.

Moreover, even if you're a 'nice' vampire, you're still a vampire. You have strong enemies, be it other Vampires and/or the Church and all of its gang, which possess the tools necessary to shred through your pseudo-undead posterior. There is good reason for even the most Mercala-worshipping of Vampires to take advantage of their racial abilities. Hell, you could just feed on other Vampires if you really want to keep non-Vampires safe. (let's not forget how the Church, while it doesn't turn away vampire members, still has those who would fuck up a fellow cleric just because they're a vampire)

If this is simply about the Holy resistance, then we would be better served with just adjusting or replacing that part, instead of turning the Trait into something that makes good Vampires look like a Corrupted.

P.S. How about we stop complaining about the low Light Weakness and tell Dev to make it as powerful as their Darkness Resistance?

[Autumn]

To me it sounds more like "I can't have it so why should they?" instead of it just being there for them to use, I see absolutely no reason to remove the trait, more so just leaving it in as an option to reward the vampires who are sticking to theme.

As for low light weakness, I do agree with that much, it should be equal to their dark resistance, trading their resistance for a weakness instead of half that.

[Snake]

Why do people forget SAN gives them the Light Resistance to "naturally combat" the Light Weakness given for having Essence? (This simply balances their weakness back. Because of SAN, never saw many triggers of Weak! text on Vampires vs Priests.)

Vampires shouldn't get outside Light Resistance at 'all' from Sanctity, only from Equipment + Bright Darkness + Sanguine Crest balance.

[Chaos]

To me it sounds more like "I can't have it so why should they?" instead of it just being there for them to use, I see absolutely no reason to remove the trait, more so just leaving it in as an option to reward the vampires who are sticking to theme.

....What part of 'a Trait that has to be shoved down throats' do you not get? You suggested that the Trait can be forced upon relevant characters, not 'offered as a choice'.

And here's the thing: It isn't a 'reward'. A minor Light Resistance boost and halving the effects of a very specific enchantment that you aren't going to commonly walk into (and lets not forget that the Trait doesn't even touch Antithesis) is not worth the fact that you're essentially dumping SAN and consequently limiting all your racial options. The Corrupted generally do a fine job at justifying a lack of SAN, whereas this suggestion falls very short on doing so.

Which, again, is why I'm suggesting: If this Trait needs this kind of restriction over its Holy protection, then touch upon that instead of turning the Trait into, as you suggested, something that we can 'shoe-horn' characters into.