[Aqua]

So I feel like there's been more than enough time given for the recent set of eventmins to get settled in and at the moment personally, it doesn't feel like they are really helping much. I'll outline what I've personally witnessed/noticed below and welcome anyone else to give their inputs. I'd rather not throw shade at the eventmins despite my desire to do so. This thread isn't for well-attracting salt and I deeply apologize to the GM's if it does so but this has been bugging the hell out of me for a good few months. I'm aware people will either light a fire under my ass or just flat out ignore this but at this point I don't really care if they do.

Lack of Public Events from the eventmins

As it stands right now, public events run by eventmins are completely lacking in terms of being a thing. So far from what I've seen only one eventmin seems to be even bothering with these types of things and in my opinion, it's unfair that they are the only one that seems to be carrying that weight on their shoulders. Yes, I am very aware that the event mins have lives outside of the game and I'm not disregarding that in the slightest before anyone jumps on my case. All the rest of the eventmins seem to be keeping to privately run events which is fair but still, they shouldn't be giving the impression of only one event min is tailoring to the community when they should all be doing so. The extreme shortage of public events is ridiculous.

Event Staff Activity
Where do I even begin with this...the activity of an event min is awful. As mentioned above only one seems to be doing anything but the thing is that there is event staff on the team that have done nothing of their own in public and it begs the question of why they are even and eventmin to begin with? It feels like a complete waste of resources to just be doing nothing with it. I will admit yes that they may have been helping the other eventmins but it doesn't feel like it's enough in the slightest. Right now it's giving off the feeling that the event staff are only doing events for those that are in their friend groups or guilds they are part of. I won't name names but there are a few event staff that give this feeling by a long shot whether it's intentional or not.

I'll reiterate that yes I know event staff have lives outside of the game but it's disappointing to see people requesting events in the event request channel in the discord and either A) being ignored or B) Having to wait a lengthy amount of time before being spoken to by one, It's disheartening and completely off-putting to approach an eventmin out of the sheer fear of being ignored or getting nowhere at all.

At this current time this is all I have to express and others are more than welcome to chip in where they want but I'm begging people not to turn this into a salt fest. I'm taking a huge risk putting this thread up hoping that I'm not the only one that feels this way.

[Miller]

I can see where a majority of these points stem from, though I do believe you might've come off a bit too strong with assumptions (while reasonable) about the activity of eventmins and whom we do them for. So I'll try to address each point from my own opinion and perspective.

• As it stands right now, public events run by eventmins are completely lacking in terms of being a thing.
  

I agree actually, there's been a distinct lack of public events from the event team and while I do understand the desire for more; most of the team are generally more suited for less numbers. Events with more than 8-12 players are nearly impossible to manage without sacrificing a great deal of quality which often means storytelling takes a giant cut and roleplaying can often take a huge dip in quality as a result. That said, our tools aren't actually generally that robust, we can spawn mobs, animations and load a mob onto ourselves + apply statuses and now damage with the recent update. While this is enough, it becomes increasingly straining and stressing the more players that are brought into the fray and we have to spread ourselves out even more. The level of build competency in giant public events also varies drastically, which often results in eventmins making difficulties. (Which requires us to make new separate encounters and plan mob scaling around which is also another big timesink.

Just keep in mind that all of this is voluntary, while WE do have lives. Some on the team prefer to avoid cutting corners as much as possible to accommodate a giant mass of players (Public events easily reach up to 20-30 players when advertised beforehand.) and instead prefer to focus on events with a focus on roleplaying and storytelling. 

• So far from what I've seen only one eventmin seems to be even bothering with these types of things and in my opinion, it's unfair that they are the only one that seems to be carrying that weight on their shoulders.
  

This is indeed true, while they are assisted by others from time to time; there should definitely be more willing to do public events.

• Where do I even begin with this...the activity of an event min is awful.
  

I can understand why it might seem that way, I feel that a better way to word it is that there's a distinct lack of transparency when it comes to what an eventmin might be doing, we are generally doing stuff behind the scenes for other players/our own events without much word of it being spoken out publicly. 

• Right now it's giving off the feeling that the event staff are only doing events for those that are in their friend groups or guilds they are part of.
  

I don't believe I can reassure you with words alone, but I've done events for general groups I have nothing to do with.

• but it's disappointing to see people requesting events in the event request channel in the discord and either A) being ignored or B) Having to wait a lengthy amount of time before being spoken to by one
  

While understandable, not everyone that has an event request is addressed in that channel specifically. There's been multiple cases where an eventmin assisted them on the spot or simply DM'd them later. Speaking entirely for myself though, I generally make a habit of not responding to requests while my plate is full with others that are still in the process of being planned to avoid stressing myself out.


I apologize if any points addressed came off as dismissive, that was not the intent at all; you have very reasonable concerns regarding the Eventmin team.


As for my own statement on things, I'd simply like to say that event planning is a huge time sink and it often takes several hours of constant effort when you factor in the fact that we have to pool our own icons from somewhere, build a map(sometimes a camp), make mobs that have very very basic functions and pre-set AI that can't be modified in anyway, testing said mobs and then having to balance the encounter so it's not unfair. As I mentioned before, our tools aren't actually all that robust presently and there has been times where I've erased hours of work on a singular mob simply because I forgot to fill out a field in the mob making form.

Not intended to be an excuse, if there's a need for public events I can likely try to accommodate more when I finish up what's currently on my plate.

[Fern]

Adding onto this, I'd like to note out the general steps I personally go through when preparing a public event.

1. Determining if it's meant to be impactful/serious in any form.
 
This usually determines the amount of general effort that'll be put into it. If it's not meant to be serious and something more light in tone / soft for people, then you don't have to account for too much beyond making the area pretty and comfortable to be in (if it's a new one) and how you're going to address several players at once when they're in. From what I've seen, these "soft public events" usually have like 20 to 30 people, sometimes more, so you often need to ask an extra hand or two to help you with them anyway. And that is a process in and of itself, because schedules don't always align, and if you want to be impromptu about it well... people aren't always going to be able to help you with impromptu, etc.

If you're looking to have it be in a new area, you still have to make that. Either through the house builder, or a third party tool for mapping because if you're like me you don't understand anything about the SL2 mapping environment and resort to a mapping tool that's pretty much designed for mapping babies like me...

In my honest opinion, and this is STRICTLY my perspective, steps 2 and beyond apply if you decided to go with anything that isn't "soft."

2. Creation of enemy mobs if it's meant to have combat, or points of interest if it's meant to be investigative (if you're trying to run an investigative public event, I wish you good luck soldier)
  
If it has fighting, you have to make mobs and balance them, on top of somehow getting the icons for them sorted out if not asking someone else to do it for you assuming you don't know how to. Because not everyone in the eventmin team knows how to icon, map, work with DMIs or is very skilled when it comes to handling mob creation. And it's not necessarily that anyone is dumb or anything - it's that it's not easy in the slightest.
 
The mob AI in SL2 is very, very jank and will almost always do things you don't expect or want it to do. I.E it will suddenly start using one skill and never the other, and when you pop in the encounter in the real thing they're doing the reverse of that. They will spam certain skills that you don't want to be spammed, etc. I'm not trying to throw shade at Dev or anything for this, more so saying this is a huge part of why the event prep process can be really tedious for public events.
 
Because then you have to account for the multiple team setups that are going to participate, you have to also test the mobs and make sure they're well-balanced (spoilers: they normally won't 100% be and it's even more difficult to make it semi-consistent when Glancing Blows exists.)
 
You have to figure out the order you'll do the mob fights in, when and where, the narrations that'll come with it since you'd rather not just throw them out without any RP usually (I can only think of very specific circumstances where doing it without any RP would be a good idea.)
 
Getting the icons, in my personal experience, is a pain in and of itself. For the longest time even though I'm able to edit existing things, I've had to rely on free sprites I found across the internet or commission someone to make something for me. And I don't always have that much money to spend. We don't have someone that makes sprites for us for free as part of the staff, so we usually have to mess with those things. As of recent, people have been very generous to me and offering me their help with sprites/event prep/mapping in the way I need for these events which I'm honestly REALLY appreciating all of that. I normally don't like accepting help for event prep from people that aren't even staff for the reason that I don't like burdening them, but I have no choice and it makes it somewhat less time consuming to prepare as well.
 
As for the investigation and points of interest part, then it boils down to how you are going to cater to all the players that are going to try and interact with things. Serious public events generally have 40 to 60 players, or 120+ in the more special cases (I'm not even joking, looking at you Godly Stage.)
 
I think one can probably already imagine how that's a headache to manage. And because it's horrible to run, you're usually forced to do something with combat if you're looking for anything serious that's meant to be public. And I guess eventmins don't want to bore people out with constant PVE.
 
3. Creation of the event space (if applicable)
 
This is such a tedious process on its own, at least for me. I have no house building skill, my mapping skills are relatively basic and heavily crutching on the fact that the program I use is very simplified and intuitive. It means that I often have to ask someone else to help, specially with the house building part if I need it. I don't know why, I -just- struggle with house building despite people making it seem easy and doing borderline artistic stuff with it.
 
And I can imagine that it's similar for other eventmins as well, because we are unfortunately not good at everything. So I can imagine that's a time investment for them as well. Personally I take hours making the maps you've seen recently because this is pretty much my first serious attempt at making that stuff. It honestly surprises me when I see someone more experienced with it finish in like an hour or less.
 
4. Determining the event's sequence
 
Figuring out the order in which things are happening is also part of public event setup. What are players going to do first when they arrive to the event when it starts? What are they going to do halfway? How are you going to build up to the end of it? What -is- the end of it anyway?
 
5. Future-proofing
 
You have to also account for people potentially being goons, because those people will always exist. So you have to take precautions and have backup plans. That doesn't necessarily limit itself to the event sequence, it can apply to things related to mob fights as well. Future-proofing isn't always something that takes too long to sort out, but it can be very painful at times. If you want a personal example of what I meant by future-proofing:
 
"Dev what do I do if people sit on Zera's Throne and try to get Demigod after Cornelius does"
   
And that's one of many. Sometimes you also have to account for the possibility that people might try to kill each other due to certain RP scenarios.
 
6. Figuring out how you're going to follow-up with the event.
 
What are you going to do for the next event? I find that this heavily depends on what kind of event you were running to begin with. If it was something one and done, then probably don't need to think too hard on it. But if it's something like a plotline...
 
... yeah, that's a process in and of itself.
 
 
Sometimes I think the main thing that makes me keep trying to do public events is seeing people happy, because the preparation for all of it is very painful when it comes to plotlines at least.
 
I just wanted to give a general idea of how time consuming it can be to prepare this stuff, specially considering that Event Tools aren't as robust as it may seem to people. A lot of the stuff we do like the maps is with silly workarounds that I'm sure Dev didn't originally expect, but ended up working out very good anyway. And even that is limiting and sort of painful to get going sometimes, because you have to account for file size limits and you have to compress parts of the "map" so that they fit in with the icon to upload, and I--
 
Yeah, it uh, it takes time. All I can say is I really understand why other eventmins don't public event frequently. Because it's kind of a nightmare to setup if you want to deliver anything with quality. At least that's how I see it.
 
As for the event-requests, from what I've seen even if they're not directly answered in the channel itself, they tend to get DM'd or something along the line. Personally I usually don't reply there because I already have a lot on the plate, so if I start running other people's events while continuing to do what I already have on the plate...
 

 

this will be me, i'm sorry i wish i could help tho wheeze
 
tl;dr public eventing is often pain to get going and i can't blame any of my fellow eventmins for not wanting to dive into it often
  
p.s: big thank you to the people that are trying to help with public events!!!
 
p.s 2: god i didn't even go into detail about how you're generally supposed to handle raid bosses, that's an ordeal in and of itself to make decent or good

[Snake]

Give me eventmin already, I'm more than capable of giving people the public things they want

[Sokuryoku]

Give me eventmin already, I'm more than capable of giving people the public things they want

Yeah same, give me Ruby.

---

Now for the real post. Yeah it does seem like events lately are catered to a certain group. However as someone who's talked to many of the event staff personally I can say thats not the case at all.

When trying to make a story, you need a focus point. A group of players that will cater to your story and not just brush it off as Saturday morning cartoon plot here. I know for a fact Fern and others are working to make the current run around of white doors, something for everyone to enjoy. While we all wont be the 'main cast', we are still able to be part of the story, add it to our own and grow from it.

I would love to see more public, one off events, or even chained part 1 to 3. As its already been stated however, everyone has lives and breaks needed to be had. I know that Miller has taken steps to provide events for those willing to talk with him.

I think that we're still in a good spot, we don't need events every day otherwise it gets stale. Just my two cents. This has been my ted talk from the phone U_U.

[Jupiter_Storm]

I do not think that a proliferation of public events is necessary. For the primary reason that as Fern outlined, they are exceedingly chaotic and not everyone will be there for the same reason. There is only so much depth you can go to with public events.

That said, there are certain themes that are appropriate for public events. But it generally boils down to some large-scale fighting because of how you can realistically approach getting 40+ players interacting with your lore. SL2's version of Raids. Themed with varying flavours - White Doors, Special Black Doors, Swarms, or Armies.

Instead, I would like to re-iterate what I often say about SL2 as a whole. Which is why the Event Staff 'seem' to be doing a lot less than they actually are.

The choke-hold on information in this game.

We need more Newsletters. Even just flyers and introduction posts or summary posts that can be read ICly - like a 'Town Herald' shouting about it. I am running a Newspaper on my lonesome and it is already getting to be a chore to the point where I'm 50/50 on quitting after the next issue is finally done. - The entire objective of this Newspaper was to bring the world to life with the events that you DON'T hear about. Instead, even while doing this ICly, I still encounter frequent issues with getting this information from others. And I'm not willing to invest the time on an alt-character that would otherwise be required to gain the """"""trust""""""" of over 200 characters just in the hope that they won't treat my Journalist with suspicion when she asks what they've been up to.

Activity isn't the problem. It's how information flows around the community. I'm happy to not be part of many events, as long as I -hear- about them, and my world feels more alive. I posit that it would be a great boon to the community as a whole if more Eventmins could simply do little posts about what they've been up to and what happened. Doesn't even need to be fancy, as long as the community can see that things are taking place.

That way, those who have a vested interest in being more actively involved know where to look, who to hang with, and how to contribute if they want to participate in less-public affairs. It's a give-and-take, the pressure shouldn't just be on the Event Staff to make their events readily available to everyone. The information SHOULD be there, no doubt, but people should also have to look for it and invest into the plot they want to join. It's give-and-take, and demonstrates respect to those who put their all into making them entertaining.

[Snake]

Ahem, let me just summarize better my thoughts after what Jupiter posted.

>> Despite having a bigger number of members than the administration staff itself, the event staff is -still- very tiny for such a huge amount of players we get by daily, each with their own schedules and needs. They need more people. They don't need people out, they need people -in-.

We need more members in the group, because with new members comes more connections to this widespread community that we have. One 'representant' of each clique we naturally have should suffice.

What bloated the current staff is how many of the same clique have gotten in, so it excludes interactions with a few others. (Not in a derogatory manner, try to read my words a bit more objectively. This is not something that can be fixed, nor even needs to. It's like having a multiple choice question of 'Yes' 'No', versus 'Yes' 'No' 'Maybe' 'Other' 'All of Above'.)

>> In ties to the former, the moment a single person of this tiny staff doesn't work their load, the rest fall on the shoulders of the others who are more prominent and upfront with their acts, (which I had said already, Fern and Miller for the most part). And that's very relatable. They should be thanked for working hard on what they do and I'm eternally grateful. I just find it unfair that they'll have to be always taking the weight like that. Activity can be a problem sometimes, and since all of this is purely voluntary work, it's all based solely on goodwill.

- And finally, the reason why information is not so well-spread is due to how this community is made of bubbles-among-bubbles, there are little to no people who are capable of perfectly fitting everywhere, so there's always someone who will be left out for X Y Z reasons. Again, more people in the staff increases the range of comfort eventmins will be able to gander from their friends and folk.

That's why I said 'I can do it'.

If what people need is common, one-off events that serve no purpose but to make a stale day in Cellsvich not boring, I'm all game to be a trial eventmin and try my best to prove my own theories correct, serving as at least someone to keep the masses entertained while the other veteran eventmins prepare the bigger shots/have more time for themselves.

Tis all, chaps. I just want to help.

[Druby]

Both Fern and Miller already put their thoughts down on things, and I share a lot of the same opinions, so while I may end up repeating a lot of what they say, I'm going to try and keep this relatively short and avoid just making the exact same sort of reply.

My first real question back is, what is your definition of a public event? Is it only the kind of events that Fern runs, where it's just a big world event where literally everyone can show up? Or also smaller sign-up events? Fern and Miller have already covered in a good amount of detail the amount of work and effort that goes into running the really big world events, but I will admit there's been a lack in the latter, but those can also be kind of basically considered private events as well since they effectively do the same thing just with a more randomized player base, which generally makes things harder because not everyone who signs up will necessarily be on the same page.

In regards to only running events for small groups of friends, I disagree with that entirely. Over my time as eventmin, most of the events I've run by myself have been by request from people, and I don't pick and choose who I take those requests from. If someone comes to me, I will work with them unless there are mitigating circumstances that make me try and direct them elsewhere. One thing I don't think people realize is just how many events do go one in the background of things. In the month of August, there were about six total events run, trimming out a couple of smaller requests and things we did, and this month (September), we've had roughly another six, again trimming out some smaller things. We have an Events Journal channel in the SL2 Discord for eventmin to log what it is we've been doing, so the GMs can keep track of our activity, and while we do have eventmin who are less active than others, that doesn't mean they don't contribute either.

There are plenty of times we ask each other for assistance in circumstances that one eventmin would have a hard time managing on their own. For a much more public example, over the course of Fern's Black Falcon events, practically all of us have been tapped at one point or another, often at the same time, to assist. For the finale, practically the entire event team was tapped in one way or another, and while I did participate, I still contributed by helping Fern with writing, and most of us continue to help Fern with the White Door events.

The eventmin team in total is... What, five people? All of whom have lives outside of a video game. The number of eventmin has only shrunk as well from its original number, with both Karidan and Kpec having been promoted to GM. I'll be honest, if anyone ever told me that I need to focus on running events more than handling my life, I'd just quit then and there.

I'm not saying you don't have a valid point, I'm sure everyone would love to see more events in general, but considering our numbers and the fact that this is a volunteer sort of situation, I think we're doing pretty well for ourselves, and I'd like to think this comes as unbiased as it can be though I admit as part of the event team, it's likely colored by my opinion of what it is I, and everyone else here, does.

[WaifuApple]

Let's not use this post - even jokingly - to try and start a campaign to get ourselves eventmin. Taking it less than seriously or trying to piggyback off these topics for self-gain just seems to be in bad taste, really.

Now, I understand how daunting it is to run public events as an eventmin - but to some degree, eventmins signed up to run their own plotlines for the community. Applications were either denied or set aside under the pretense that Dev wanted eventmins that could provide stories of their own, first and foremost. Solely doing events provided by others, in that sense... it's not the most ideal trait.

To make the world feel alive you don't need a massive, well thought out story arc - something simple as a monster attack, in my experience, was enough to fill a niche. It wasn't for everyone, but it gave a public event that didn't require a MASSIVE amount of planning.

And of course, I want to make note of - without name dropping - the eventmins who, intimidated or uncomfortable running events at the same time as one, singular world focused event (At the time, the Black Falcons) because they felt there was no space for them, couldn't muster the energy to create events. That itself is a mindset that sort of gets in the way of potential.

More can be done, not just by players. Getting past worries like that for the sake of the role, not trying to set the bar too high for what people are expecting at a "public event". They're not all expecting a hypermassive story arc. Just something to draw them in, let them talk about it for a while.

That, at least - the bare minimum, isn't exactly as hard as it's being made out to be. Maybe some eventmins are just setting their sights too high, and letting advanced planning daunt them instead of sometimes just taking a concept and going with the flow for a night.

That's what I think. And I felt, even as an eventmin, with the access to things others couldn't see, it was always a little too quiet.

[Snake]

Ain't self-gain. We do need more eventmins. There's only much five people can do against a hundred plus who are there just to consume content and not even say 'thanks' afterwards.