[caliaca]

IMO,

Remove prebuffing for pvp matches. Just have buffs wipe at turn 0 in PvP.

Keep excel charges not being removed on glance or dodge though. If they cleared on glance/dodge excel would be pretty useless in dodge pvp.

[MegaBlues]

If Charge Mind can be cleared between fights and expire even on glance/evade, excel charges can too. The fact that they remain on glance might not be a bug but it's likely unintended behavior.

[caliaca]

For a compromise, just have them not do the extra damage on glance soo since most on hit stuff doesn't apply on glance. I know it's different cause of how excel charges empower the weapon itself rather than on hit but it probably is internally consistent with not getting extra damage on glance.

[Shujin]

I mean.

I think we should all address the elephant in the room that this thread is almost certainly based on.

Kiss Farewell mutating into a bow. 

Nope it is not...Excel Sniper has the exact same issue and always had. Excel Parashu precharging is also pretty bad on a Checkmate build. Less bad though cause it can't snipe you across the map.

this is a general "This is not how it should work." thread. I just also discovered that the few counters that we have to charge weapons, do not actually function, cause the person even after the attack is evaded/Deflected, can just shoot again with the full power. That makes no sense logically either. If you shot your big shot into the ground, it does not magically recharge your chamber to max. As you have pointed out yourself, I agree with that.

And glancing applies the damage bonus still making it a better hit than an no charge one, and gives you another chance. This applies to ALL charge weapon. Kiss farewell mutated into bow is most certainly not an exception, only cause it does somethings better. A holy Excel sniper still ruins your day even more if it applies to you.

I also disagree on it not consuming on evade/glance/Deflect. Its a VERY fair trade off. Cause you basically one-shot dodgies. And Guns/bows have very good hit rates to begin with. It doesn't need to be the best in all scenarios.
All it does in the end is probably force you to not hug a corner and spray and pray, while being untouchable, but needing to get alittle closer in to compensate for farshot, it be fine.

[firehawk11]

As much as this issue is an issue I think prebattle buffing should be removed for PvP, should fix thiings...

[caliaca]

I really don't think they should expire on glance or evade as this will make evades win rate vs excel sky rocket. It's an over nerf, especially since the ranged options eat farshot even with guile stacking. Would sorta make their effective range very low cause you couldn't feasibly take a shot under 50% without potentially turbo fucking yourself.

I wish we had an easy way of testing this but i imagine this would take excel winrates so far down vs dodgies they wouldn't be worth using in those match ups.

[renowner]

Don't particularly think an excel bow breaks the game any more than the others. Kiss farewell lacks Elite Engine, which is crazy ridiculously strong.
Hard agree on both points.
A miss should still use up a charge. It makes sense ,and charges are so strong that having this nerf should still end up fine. If the dodge fails ,well good game, you just got one shot.
And persistent charges should no longer be a thing. Ends up being too grimey. Same with Astral belt. Astral belt is way less op, but still it gets a bit grimey when people want to do a few fights to max buff out before attacking another player.

A system to set up ambushes where you start up buffed could be cool, to discuss at another time for those types of situations at least.
Then it opens up the door for an excel potential down the line to retain the old 'starts battle with charges' thing.