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["Global Fleur" Proposal] A "fix" to Basic Attacks
#3
Fern Wrote:
The idea of Duelist's Fleur becoming another effect, and critical hits by default giving +2M has been considered at several points. In most cases it was considered to be a crazy idea, and that it would make things pretty horrible. However, a recent discussion in SL2 general amongst community members has brought to light that...

It actually isn't that crazy sounding of an idea anymore.

The idea has been brought to light multiple times, and the discussions in regards to the topic usually concluded on a positive/supportive note. This is something I believe as well -- if critical hits, by default, gave two momentum? Rather than causing a generally unwanted change, it would open the gates for so many possibilities and a great amount of fun ideas that would otherwise be impossible due to the current state of critical hits without Fleur (or Bloody Shift). Basic attacker builds would no longer be shoehorned into specific setups with little to no variety, which would be a welcome change for sure.

Fern Wrote:
The reason it's being considered is because any basic attack build without Volcanic tends to be considered complete garbage, due to the following factors:
*You must invest much more stats in comparison to someone building autohits or magic.
*Someone building autohits or magic tends to benefit far more than someone buliding basic attacks, despite the amount of effort it requires to make a basic attacker generally speaking [...].
*Due to the amount of damage reduction stacking present in the game, in addition to the ""negligible"" damage basic attackers (usually) have, building critical evade is seen as not too necessary [...].

Most of this is true.
Volcanic has become somewhat of a staple enchant for basic attack builds due to the sheer amount of bonus damage you can get from it, and it does help such builds greatly; but I personally believe that, despite the presence of this enchant, basic attack builds still suffer in the absence of Fleur and/or Bloody Shift.
Autohit and magic builds alike generally have a much more easier time than basic attack builds do, because they don't have to bother themselves with Hit, Critical, Evade (if applicable), Damage and Critical Damage (if applicable), Defenses, and so on. For such builds, it boils down to Damage and Defenses as a bare minimum; whereas for basic hitting builds it boils down to all of the aforementioned stats as a bare minimum, in part because the amount of stat points they have to distribute for their build to be functional is far greater in comparison.
I would personally like to disagree, to an extent, in regards to Critical Evade not being so... necessary. Certain builds simply melt when faced against a basic atacker that can land critical hits on them, but this does not necessarily apply to each and every build.

Fern Wrote:Volcanic: You're gonna have to nerf this one if you actually make critical hits give +2M by default, I mean it. Currently it's 100% Fire ATK + Weapon Power protection ignoring damage on Critical Hit, so maybe you could just make it 50% Fire ATK + Weapon Power instead. The reasoning for this proposed change? Because in a world where basic attackers are almost always good, you don't HAVE to use Volcanic and could instead keep it as a thematic enchant or something that you can put on just because without crying about how useless it is.

Yeeeep. Volcanic's really strong currently, and in a world where everyone gets 2 momentum per critical hit, it'd become the optimal choice (more than it already is). Any nerfs of any kind would be welcome, so as to grant other enchants some relevance.
 
Fern Wrote:Twin Dance: If this change were to happen, Twin Dance would become the go-to "meta" no questions asked. For reference, this is Twin Dance, the Rogue Main Class passive (https://i.imgur.com/MTFtF1S.png) / So how would we go about preventing it from going bonkers with the aforementioned system? Maybe it could just make it so your second hit doesn't get a critical hit's momentum tracking, but I'm not sure how hard it is to code that in. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I'm just throwing out an idea.

Given how critical momentum tracking works currently, this would mean that each weapon would net you two momentum per critical, if it lands. This, in turn, means that two weapons is four bonus momentum, potentially speaking. Put Twin Dance in the equation, and this means that each basic attack would net you four bonus momentum by default.

Yikes.

Fern's idea is not a bad approach at all, and is a change I'd suggest as well. But beyond Twin Dance itself? I feel that, regardless of class/weapon/etc., players should not be able to get more than two bonus momentum per crit, per round.
  
Fern Wrote:Bloody Shift: For reference, this is Bloody Shift (https://i.imgur.com/KKQkGcP.png) / I mention this because Phase Fang from Phase Python is a Youkai Evoker that basic attacks and rolls an infliction check to inflict poison while also providing good mobility. This poison can reach LV30, the same as your average Wretched Oil from Hexer. Bloody Shift currently makes Youkai Evokes cost 2M to do, which would turn this into a 2M basic attack that inflicts Poison LV30. If you imagine this in a world where "global fleur" is a thing, you can probably see what I'm getting at. I don't have a good idea for this one chief, but maybe you could make it scale off a fourth of Phase Python's Level so it becomes Poison LV15 max? Or maybe you could just make it so Bloody Shift's exception are Youkai Evokes that make you basic attack. I think the second would be better, frankly, but I'm just spitballing ideas for this one since I'm not so certain. Unless you think Bloody Shift Phase Fang wouldn't get crazy, then by all means, just forget that bit.

Ehh. Phase Fang aside...
Bloody Shift's thing is to function as some kind of Fleur that functions based on Youkai Evokes. With the addition of global fleur, this passive would lose relevance and become somewhat obsolete -- it could likely stand to be removed altogether if this change went through.
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RE: ["Global Fleur" Proposal] A "fix" to Basic Attacks - by Lewdcifer - 12-02-2020, 10:49 PM

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