[FaeLenx]

Do you know how culture is formed? Like on a sociological definition, do you know what it entails? You answered your own question a few times while trying to enforce the point that they don't have a culture. Being a place where people can be organically themselves, whether it is being rowdy in the streets, drinking until the sun comes up, and generally just being free-spirited.

You're right. I did answer that question a few times. Because that was the point I was making.

The culture is all of those things I mentioned, but it isn't museums and barracks and other things that you suggested. That doesn't all make sense. The way you were describing adding them was like asking for a checklist of things that you needed to get an end goal that you wanted, not at all a reflection of Beggar's Hole as it appears or how it's described.

And what do you mean 'a history that it doesn't have'? There's a starting point from when the original four decided to settle here. Right now, history is taking place because of the IC that is happening because we are engaging in border tension.

You're right. Right now history is happening, but they don't have any. This is perhaps the most defining moment for Beggar's Hole, but what would go in the museum that would change the discussion today in any reasonable manner? 

This did nothing but reinforce the point that others are trying to make. You could argue that the SL2 community has its own culture in how they believe things should be settled, jokes, attitudes that are shared amongst another. That is what a culture is. If you don't think that the characters that have developed there don't have a life of it's own or any ideals beyond 'robbing you with consent', maybe you could try engaging with them and see that they're well-rounded characters. It might change your mind. It's just absolutely appalling to some of the population that people refuse to acknowledge them without trying to get a feel for how each character acts, as this is supposed to be a co-operative experience. 

I have no doubt that they're well rounded characters. People on SL love these jokes. That's what I said. You all chose to derive some negative connotation from that where I was somehow saying that this was a negative thing in some way. Beggar's Hole exists because the concept is funny. People who I had assumed had a sense of humor and wanted to share that made it happen, and it was an alluring, funny prospect that brought in a lot of extra people. I don't think I'm reframing anything I said in any way when I say that I would hope that everyone was in on the joke. The issue with that is that evidently everyone wasn't in on the joke.

The person who coined it, made it, and founded it said that it was not a well intentioned joke at all, rather it was a scathing commentary on the way he thought this community was flawed. Because he felt that requiring consent was a problem. I'm glad you're all changing the name with that in mind, especially when you're asking others to provide consent and be well intentioned with the way they interact with you.

Hello

I am one of the people who founded Beggar's Hole back when we were still the consenting bandits. And I got to say, reading all of this made me feel confident in my decision in quitting the game. First I want to thank all the people who decided to participate in the faction and are trying their best to push it further than since it originally started. However, I have to correct this opinion that some people may have in regards to that what Beggar's Hole 'is'.

Everyone who says Beggar's Hole is just a meme spot with haha-funny OOC intent should really take a good hard look at the rules.

The reason Beggar's Hole exist is because we wanted to be antagonistic and not immediately killed off by the community who openly hate anything that has to do with conflict. This whole issue is a clear example of why conflict on SL2/Korvara is garbage. It is not just the rules but also the community who grew up on a game that rarely had any 'true' conflict where they were forced to accept the consequences. The fact that when the consenting bandits were still just that, the rules stated that you couldn't even rob people with permission, that was the entire joke.

There was no consequences if nobody wanted any.

That sole reason is the bane of this entire continent. Everyone can just push away from conflict or 'force' conflict by putting an app in to an admin and type out an essay about why X, Y, or Z deserves to be killed/robbed/etc. Beggar's Hole was created so that we could have a chance to be antagonistic and rise up to be more than just haha-funny people who rob with consent. Outside of the people who actively played there or aided in its initial creation have no right to say how Beggar's Hole should be seen on an OOC standpoint. Beggar's Hole wasn't created because y'all DEEMED it acceptable due to it being a meme, it was created because the community completely sucks with handling anything antagonistic or anything relating to conflict. It was a way for people who love RP but weren't used to SL2 to come together and form something that wasn't just being clique ran and one where something could actually happen on the world that was suppose to be centered on RP.

It is clear that a good amount of the community do not know how to handle it.

I don't know too much about the recent things outside of the recent activities that had occurred with the faction. I know about the odd NPC drama that had occurred, which I believe is rather stupid. NPCs should exist yes, but their roles should never be more significant than a PCs own as this world was meant to revolve you know, the actual players. Either way I can sit here and say communication is key, but that should have never been a thing that needed to be said in the first place. At the end of the day, the first major conflict that happened to Korvara after 2ish month was done by a group of people who barely or never played SL2 before and wanted something to actually come out of the game that wasn't just cuckplots and romance drama.

Take what I said as you will. I don't play the game anymore and hadn't since a bit after Beggar's Hole was formed. I saw enough and still hear enough which makes me uninterested in returning.

Since you're all intent on using only the words of players and founders, I've picked out the actual vitriol from his post without removing any of the rest of it lest I get accused of missing context. This guy's post is reductive to literally everyone else and what they've done on this game, hateful for a community that he is not a part of because it didn't fit his wants, and generally inflammatory. If I had to go back and fix my original post about ANYTHING about why Beggar's Hole exists, it would be to take out the part about it being a good natured laugh that we all shared. This man who is the founder has made it clear that he made it with the intention to laugh at everyone else, and nobody else is allowed to be in on the joke.

Evidently the entire point was that consent is stupid and we should just be grimelords. That goes against the spirit of what everyone else, quite literally EVERYONE ELSE in here is advocating.

Be better. Take what that all started and make something fun and good natured from it. Have fun. Stop pretending that all of this wasn't said though.