[Ranylyn]

Examples will be withheld to protect individuals. I'm not here to start anything. I'm just curious.


Something's been bugging me a bit lately. Now, I fully admit that I'm off my meds so literally everything is bugging me (I do not like the way the light is coming in through my window, raaaaage,) and maybe I wouldn't care at all if I was properly medicated, but I figure, "Maybe it's not just me. Maybe this is actually stupid. I mean, I may as well ask everyone else what they think."

So let me cut to the chase.

It's no secret that I have a metric boatload of keys and alts. I fully admit to being a registered member of Altaholics Anonymous, or I would be if it was an actual thing wait maybe it is, I'll look it up after I'm done here. I've had people think I was Fern because of mentioning my number of keys. Because I have so many keys, I occasionally have a playby someone else wants to use, so I'm usualy courteous and surrender it to them; if they ask "Is anyone using _____" I give them the okay, and if they don't and I just encounter a clone, I just remake the character as something/someone else. As I'm well aware some other people have also done as well. It's especially common when a surge of characters from series becomes a popular trend and I had a character from it for awhile beforehand.

What's been bugging me is... I play SL2 to RP. Some people play SL2 to meme. I mean, don't get me wrong, I like FF6 as much as the next guy and I laughed my butt off at the coding that allowed Sabin to suplex a freaking train, but when I see a character I was playing seriously devolving into "lol ima suplex the arena" I just go... "why?" It basically makes me feel like that kid in the schoolyard sharing his toys, only to have someone else run up to me, kick me in the groin, smash my toys, then pull my pants down and get me in trouble for indecent exposure. When did "RP Mandatory" become "lolmeme memedatory" anyways?

Now, don't get me wrong. I fully get it is no longer my character once I give it up. But the fact remains that it's a character I can no longer use being used for the exact opposite purpose of roleplay. And the entire reason I give characters up is to encourage more people to play more characters so we can get some more varied RP. So....

I know some people have said not to care about who plays what characters, just do your own thing and clones will pop up regardless. But I'm wondering where everyone else stands on this.

[Fern]

I don't think this has ever been a RP mandatory BYOND game, specially because of when Neus mentioned in the OOC that he mostly intended for this game to be a MMORPG of said engine {and correct me if I'm wrong about that, although I'm pretty sure I remember him saying such thing}.

I, personally, believe that this game's too far away from what you would call a 'RP game'. I think it's more a game that has roleplay, but however, is not centered on it and most likely won't be any time soon. Even though I don't 'meme' as often as some people, I don't see myself taking RP very seriously to the point where I'll get annoyed by just seeing one of these comedy attempt things. So you probably won't see me being incredibly disturbed by the memes that are occasionally present.

I usually don't surrender playbys unless I know that person is going to actually use it. It's the same with super duper rare weapons a friend/acquaintaince is looking for: if I expect them to barely use it then it's fairly likely I won't give them it. Not for free, at least.

Joking should be okay as long as you do it right. To each their own, though.

[Trexmaster]

I'm honestly not too sure what the issue you're addressing is exactly. I also re-read over your post a few times, as it was sort of confusing at first, but I think I'm close to your point. If it's 'the RP environment in SL2 isn't serious/consists majorly of people spouting memes' then, yeah, I've issues with that. Even if that may be an exaggeration, I think anyone who looks in the Arena more than once or twice a day knows exactly what I'm talking about.

It's gotten to the point where I've lost my will to play the game because very few concepts of mine would mesh well in the current public RP environment. Which, in my mind tends to be 'willing to put up with mentally insane people for more than an hour and/or will actually get along with them'. Seriously, beyond a few small talks in Cellsvich or when the Arena is deserted, unless you drag someone off, you're going to be dealing with a crowd of crazy people doing dumb shit.

Like Ranylyn, I'm not going to name names or throw examples down unless people really want me to, but I think the community knows who's most guilty of stuff like this already. That's not my point ,though. If the majority of people playing SL2 really enjoy the current RP environment, more power to them. I know I'm not the only person who has issues with how the current environment is, and, like those others, I've distanced myself from the game recently as a result.

As to -why- I've issues with it, I feel that a non-serious RP environment damages the RP of anyone who actively tries to roleplay anything remotely serious. Sure, this isn't an issue if you do private RPs or just happen to find the right people, but, more often than not, any attempts at a serious RP in a public environment will result in it being made a joke of what it was meant to be. I'll give one major example of this, that I know a lot of people would agree with--

Bloeden's execution. There were over 20 people there, and some even came back to the game for it. Almost the entire crowd was making jokes either ICly or OOCly, or just not taking the situation seriously at all. It's fine if it's just people being IC, but when it gets to a point where it's just nonsensical all the time regardless of the situation, it makes people not even want to try to do anything remotely serious when it's just going to be met casually.

There isn't much to be said as to how to 'fix' it if people really enjoy that sort of roleplay. Those who dont either simply leave, or just seek RP in other places or in more private situations. Or just bear it, like I did for awhile.

[Exxy]

Ranylyn » Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:08 am[/url]"]Examples will be withheld to protect individuals. I'm not here to start anything. I'm just curious.

I know some people have said not to care about who plays what characters, just do your own thing and clones will pop up regardless. But I'm wondering where everyone else stands on this.

I'm assuming this is ultimately about same playbys/others purposefully or accidentally copying characters you've created.

EDIT: I'm a with Trex on this, I'm not sure what point you're trying to address (but I assume it's multiple ones in the same topic will be responding to it in the same manner).

EDIT 2: I need to get a snazzy animu picture like Trex and Fern. :

[Felkesste]

Before I say anything else, I'm just getting over a big ol', lengthy illness, and I'm probably noooot as 'clear-headed' as I think, (though props to me for having the self-awareness to point something like this out in the first place, eh?)

From the sounds of it, Ran let someone have a playby, only to discover that the person who took the playby planned to use them for jokes, and memes- which left Ran in a very uncomfortable place. They can't exactly say, "No, wait, changed my mind, stop doing what you're doing-!", but they feel gross seeing what used to be one of their 'characters' make lolsorandom jokes. With nowhere in particular to turn about it, and no mature, responsible solution- that also happened to be satisfying- they decided to post this in the forums to get some kind of discussion about it going. Talking about your problems is good. Thumbs up.

As for my opinion on things like this, I'ma be honest here, were the game truly RP-mandatory, this sort of thing should be a punishable offense. When someone started doing something derpy, and ridiculous, they'd be slapped on the wrists for it. I used to play, er.. One of the many Dragon Ball Z role-playing games, where if you misbehaved, you'd end up nerfed, the rate you gained power would be lowered, you wouldn't be trusted with ranks or special abilities, it was very much an environment where the good role-players ended up also being the strongest characters. This really forced people to step up their game, and at least -try-. If you were recognized as a crummy role-player, you were shut down in such a way where your character couldn't have any major impact on anything. So joke characters like Gay Nappa couldn't ever hope to pose a threat to more serious characters, and that meant that those kinds of characters could back-hand them if they bothered them overly much. Unlike here where anyone can be powerful, and role-playing ability has nothing to do with your fights, and any kind of PVP requires duel requests, and can just as easily be turned down- so even emoting violent intent doesn't really do much, since the meme-master just has to click 'Decline', and make some kind of sassy reply about being too cool for violence to make you look like a goober.

That doesn't really apply here, and honestly, I don't even know why I brought it up, the game mechanics are waaay too different to take anything away from that. Oof. Eh, but my opinion is, yes, the memes are annoying, yes, the jokey, "I clearly could not care less about the world, it's inhabitants, or even my own character." attitudes do bother me. But then, other things that bother me are like, self-depreciation or denial when anyone has a critique. Y'don't have to qualify things with a joke about how much of a goober you are. Or, like, "Not all of us like anime pictures-" "Oh, I don't like them either- I'm just appealing to the weeby playerbase, is all." Come on, man, no one puts effort into gathering up a bunch of faces, and pictures of a character solely to 'appeal to the weebs'. If you like it, don't deny it, or hide it, because one person shared an opinion. But that prolly has more to do with the.. Less-than-stellar self-esteems of a fair portion of the player-base, than your topic.

At the end of the day, Sigrogana Legend 2, as a game, doesn't really know what it wants to be, eheh.. If it were just the game engine itself.. Well, there wouldn't be much to do, or much going on, huh? Grinding, and grinding, and then sitting at max level, hoping someone'll PVP you. Not a lot to keep players around for a game like that. But going all in on bein' a role-playing game means a lot of work, and policing, and just general Big Brother's Watching You stuff. So they threw 'RP Mandatory' up on the wall, and made it clear that RP is enforced, encouraged, and the like- the rest is up to the community. I'unno, do the carrot and stick thing. Positively reinforce the good role-play, and- well, don't go out of your way to 'punish' the meme-masters. Not just 'cause that'd make them into 'invincible, lolzy trolls', but because this is a GAME, and a game is s'posed to be fun- not drama, or stress, or anything. Maybe the game can get some kind of 'RPing tier' system implemented. (Not policed by players, then it becomes a popularity contest, and promotes cliques.) Some kind of legitimate, mechanics-based reward for being a role-player, and maybe a small penalty for being a meme-master, so that the role-players aren't being overshadowed by goobers, story-wise?

[Ranylyn]

Thanks for the replies, and I'd like to share this, first off:



Until Dev comes out and states otherwise, it IS listed as "Mandatory" which is actually the single deciding factor that made me decide to try it, those years ago when I had an RP itch that needed scratching. Of course, I think most sensible people are willing to accept people who don't want to roleplay so long as they don't disrupt roleplay, such as not actively seeking out interactions with other players. That's fine. I know that there have been times in the past when I was feeling antisocial but still wanted to enjoy the battle system and all. I just kept to myself, you know?

But, of course, the issue comes with, well... honestly, I think Trex nailed it. Like, 100% completely. Right down to my post not being all that clear (for which I do apologize, my mind was a jumbled mess when I posted it. Like I said, off my meds. Discontinuation Syndrome is a hell of a thing. Not trying to make excuses. Just explaining. I'm sure I'll look back when I'm back on and be mortified I posted it.) Most people I used to RP with more privately and had engaging storylines going on with have either quit or keep hours that are incompatible with my own, so all that's left is... well... everyone else. And... I mean... just... *sigh* The example of Bloeden's funeral is a perfect example of what I mean. I didn't personally attend so I don't know who was doing it, but it's a perfect "Yeah, this is what I mean." An issue that is only compounded when it's being done by playbys I gave up to other people.



I'm sorry, my mind is starting to swim at random again, so I'll finish replying later. I'm not ignoring the rest of you guys, I promise. I just didn't want to have to go through the hassle of saving this somewhere or leaving my browser open. I promise to reply directly to every last one of you. I started typing this a half hour ago and still only have this, despite most of my longer posts only taking 5-10 minutes, so it's a good indicator I need to rest my head and come back in a bit.

[Sarinpa1]

It shouldn't come off as a suprise that the recent rise in meme jokes, ..how to say it without profanity... "overdone silly RP" and completely disregarding major injuries during hostile conflicts for the sake of "comedic" recoveries is something I really dislike. I'll not say that we have had too much of a serious roleplaying enviroment and the jokes of this calibre were present for a while, but as long as it was uncommon, let's say, one joke per hour, it was bearable. Right now, any attempts to have anything remotely resembling a serious roleplay in a larger group is near impossible, especialy so in the arena.

As someone that on occasion tries to find new roleplaying buddies (After all, roleplaying with the same players over and over gets somewhat repetitive, no matter the characters) by creating a new character and trying to involve themselves with strangers, even those I can very safely identify as people I find very unpleasant to talk to, I've stumbled upon another issue that leads to this. Unless the characters end up having issues, may it be mental issues, or issues in the past, and they aren't completely oblivious to their enviroment, they are bound to respond negatively to these...shenanigans, due to them making little to no sense. And since character developement is a thing, they end up embracing it as some..cultural differences, plague, or whatever the character can come up with, but very rarely it leaves them untouched.

I'm not sure if it makes much sense, it's four in the morning here, but I'll try a tl;dr
if i want a character with the intelligence of an average adult, i have to have them become excessively tolerant, ignorant of their surroundings to the level of not knowing what's going on, or just evading public areas. I don't think that's something one should be forced to in a roleplaying game. Especialy if it leads to people crying that my characters don't like their, and that it's totes OOC hate, instead of legit IC issues with said characters, just because they persist across half the characters they meet.


edit : also dont take my word for it, but i think Chaos said that he's very againts this, something worth considering, da. Or maybe it was just memes in general. Not sure.

[Breakaway~totheweird]

I can't be bothered to type out some elaborate post touching on points that everyone else mentioned. It'd be repetitive.

But I'd also like to hardcore agree with Trex, Fern, and anyone shedding light on one, major, glaring issue with SL2: It's not an RP game. You can invite someone from another "legit" (and I use this term lightly) RP game on Byond and nine times out of ten, their response is going to be "lol SL2 isn't an RP game". You can't slap a Lamborghini hood ornament on your mom's rusted '79 station wagon and sell it as such.

That said, I wouldn't invest too much into being peeved about memes. People are going to continue doing it and won't stop for a very, very long time. The best you can do is deal with it or exert your efforts elsewhere. It sounds pessimistic, and it is.

And as depressing and soul-crushing as cliquing up is, your best bet to keeping your sanity is getting chummy with those who'll provide serious RP in the background. You'd be lucky to find that; most decent RPers jumped ship a while ago.

[Ranylyn]

Okay, I'm back, sorry about that. I need to lie down a lot lately because of the withdrawl from my meds. Sometimes it just feels like there's something inside my head pushing against my skull, outward, from the inside, and it hurts so much I literally pass out. Other times, I'm just... not right in the head. But now I'm lucid again, and I have a doctor's appointment soon to rectify the issue, so I promise this will not be a recurring theme. If anyone here has ever gone cold turkey off 225mg (daily) of Venlafaxine, I'm sure you know what I mean. That's some pretty harsh stuff.

Let me begin by saying I agree with Sarin 100% on the topic of more joke-oriented... "roleplay." And I use that term very very loosely. (To use a recent example from the "funny quotes" thread, there's no such thing as Mexicans in SL2, so that should not be a thing ICly mentioned.) It's downright disruptive to RP and your options are to either OOCly decide "yeah, screw you all, my headcanon is that this never happened" or to have some kind of excuse for being a shut-in/ recluse including, but not limited to, physical/mental disability. But you can't just lock yourself away in a player house and have friends come visit you because then people start to complain about your elitist exclusive clique because of course they'll complain about ROLEPLAYING a prefered group of friends like PEOPLE REALLY DO IRL.


Now, I'll address the following point made by multiple people all at once: "SL2 isn't an RP game." Remember when we asked Dev for a local OOC channel and Dev said no because SL2 isn't an OOC game? And that screenshot I literally just linked of the Byond hub and SL2 being called an RP-Mandatory game. The issue isn't with SL2, the issue lies with the players who play SL2. I wish I had a screenshot, but I've seen Chaos ask who he needs to bitchslap over a blatant meme character popping in and leaving before he could react. And let's talk Server Rules, shall we?

Twinking rule excerpt from the Server Rules:

Purpose: The spirit of this rule comes from the idea that, because this is a roleplaying game, new characters should not get a head start above others because they're OOC friends with someone who has a horde of magical artifacts laying around. Characters should have to earn their own things, whether that's through hard work or well-done roleplay. Furthermore, decking out your alts in the best armor and weapons around is not roleplaying at all; it's metagaming, and should not happen at all, unless the only items transferred are donation items, which you can do whatever you want with.

SL2 was clearly made with the intent of being an RP game. Does this mean that it is definitely one despite the community, or does the community override it? Now, I definitely agree that with it's current playerbase, it cannot qualify as an RP game. I'd also argue, however, that with Dev actually making statements like "Memes prevent me from doing this" (Source: http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.p...amp;t=2257) and Chaos actively calling people out on trying to pass off 500+ damage hits as friendly sparring, that the players doing these things are in the wrong. Ergo, SL2 is an RP Mandatory game with rampant shitmeme rulebreaking. And like I say to the Smogon community when their members come into official formats with their own preconceptions, "If that's the game you want to play, all power to you, but please keep it to your own community, because you're being disruptive to the rest of us. No. No, you cannot convice me that you're right. I've literally heard it all before. Stop. No. Fuck it, putting you on ignore." Except SL2 has no ignore feature - and why should it, really? It's roleplay. Not everyone will get along. That's just how the world works!

Now, that's my "big bout of negativity" out of the way, time to address invidifual points:

Fern: I do believe I'll take a lesson from you on this and not be so quick to surrender my playbys to other people from now on. I really do think my big problem was just trying to be "the nice guy" and not actually considering -who- was getting the characters. I know at least one person I am never surrendering a character to again, if not closer to 5. I'm actually tempted to just re-make them myself and be like "As the original who'll actually play it and not just shitmeme, I feel fully justified in telling you to deal with it." But I don't like being mean.

Exxy: Yes, to clarify, these cases were either people asking if anyone already has X character, or someone else making it and running into me on the playby on their first day. To use an example of a character I have NOT seen making me regret giving up, I used to have IF before the surge of people making Neptunia characters. I ran into another IF, a newer one, while on my own, and I agreed to let them have it. To use an example I DO regret giving up but not singling anyone in particular out for, I used to have 2 RWBY characters (I would have had like 6 if not for taking while with faceicons) before everyone and their moms jumped on that bandwagon as Vol 3 was airing. I surrendered one when someone asked if anyone was using it, to which I said I was but I was willing to part with it. I'm not saying which. And I sorely wish I did not because I cringe every time I see them say... well... anything.

Now, I'm not saying I've never used someone else's character, too. But we normally sort it out quickly before I even get to play the character for long. For example, I once lost a bet and had to make a character from something Idol related since I do not like idols. The one character whose design I decided I didn't hate was coincidentally already in use. Ran into the person using it literally right away, as luck would have it, and we sorted it out. They were actually grateful that I apologized and agreed to delete the character since others had given them grief in the past.

Felkesste: All I can say is "Pretty much." As I mentioned above, such nonsense has basically been called out by Dev and Chaos, and I'm pretty sure Sly's also talked about it before so I really do believe they DO want to make it more about the roleplay. But it's also true that there's periods of times with no GMs on at all, so things can't be enforced. So in a sense, it's kind of like we're stuck, if that makes sense?

And last, but certainly not least, to the middle finger rave party: You're quite right about a chunk of decent RPers jumping ship. A big part of why I'm annoyed at "needing' to deal with the memes is because of people I RP'd with leaving en-masse so all that remains is to meet new people to RP with. But you know, I think this world sucks enough as is, so I'd like to try to be optimistic on this front. Sure, I'm likely completely setting myself up for dissapointment, but hey, I've got an emotional attachment to SL2 from some of my past RP, and I'm not ready to give up on it yet.

[Chaos]

I think I've made my stance on the silly RPs quite clear over the past few weeks, so I'll just touch upon a certain part of this topic:

I could care less about playbys in general. The only time I would be bothered by the matter is:
1. You use the exact same edit(s) of said playby (Which is deliberate copy-pasting)
2. You play keep-away on a playby you use for a far-too-silly character (Your character is a joke, and so is your so-called 'claim')