blah blah Spoops and Balthie down there are right, I agree with them, even if I'm the book cover of the 'Memegazine'.
It's an eyesore when you are roleplaying something that actually makes sense, such as RPing a Raijin like a machete enchanted with Redgull, but people keep going like a bunch of derps. "O hey lol raijin". The only 'meme' of this was when Soapy and Derg were RPing magic as first-aid kits or something silly like that. Or when people like me used to RP Wretched Oil as poisoned knives. All in the past and buried by now, though. I really thought this was over and done with? But since people are pointing that out here rather multiple times, I can see how sad this is becoming.
About memes and trash roleplay, there's a reason I'm really concerned (if not the only I even give a fuck to) about having serious situations and I can 100% promise that the quality of the game's roleplay will change if the game gives you a reason to be serious. The GMs stopped eventing, and the only GM I ever see super active with helping on events is Dyst, and only Dyst. I miss Chaos, and I've never saw Slydria doing anything but handing bans and warnings.
If being an event GMs are too much for some of them, then why not elect a few players to be Event Admins?
Once again I try to point out that if something really mood-killing were to be happening, I doubt someone would continue memeing. But how the hell are we going to find solutions if all I see here are people crying about 'I miss olde SL2, boo hoo'.
Where are the solutions?
Or do y'all think people will read this thread and be like. "Oh hey, they're right, we're wrong! Shit, so sorry for ruining your RP because I'm REALLY BORED."
I waited to see the initial responses to this, but I'll start it out on the lightest note I can.
Quote:Afterword: Sorry, I tried to format this as best I could for readability. Forgive me, I wrote more than I could chew in the end.
Nanovelich, I'm not quite sure who you are, nor will I be speaking my mind about the prospect of wipes. But I will say this.
It's rare to see such a comprehensive and well written rebuttal, and I appreciate it. You're fine with the formatting, mate. I've been informed of who you are whilst typing this post, and I'd like to extend my thanks. You work has been invaluable to me perhaps hundreds of times in the calc.
Onto the actual OP. It's no secret that I tend to be a recluse on both the forums and the game itself- some already know why, and now the rest of you do too. Despite being an oldbie, it's quite frankly exactly what this thread is about that makes me hide away from the community like a particularly snobby, self-made Rapunzel, only letting my hair down on the rarest of occasions. I adore the game- god knows, I've spent enough time and money on SL1 and 2 both. I adore a lot of people who play the game. But the community as a whole can often sink into a mire of memes, irritating comments that tread awfully close to the fourth wall, and a tendency to treat mechanics as IC in a way that often drains my desire to participate.
Perhaps something that makes this far more egregious is that I often have to grin and bear it for time spent on my guard- but that's a part of the role that I accept for the fun it otherwise allows.
That said, onto the meat and bones of what I want to say- and it begins with Soapy's comment.
Quote:I'm in full agreement with the OP, but I have to say I think it's too far down the line for this post to have any positive results.
I only partially agree with this. I fully agree that this whole situation is a problem that undoubtedly has permanent effects. However, I feel like at least something can be done to improve the state of RP just a little more, to be a touch more bearable again. The first thing that comes to mind is something I'm sharply aware that numerous people in this thread do, albeit with good intentions, including myself. Perhaps if the people who are permanent fixtures in the game and the IC like the majority of posters here, once again including myself, bite the bullet and risked looking like a bit of a twat to just. . point people in the right way if the IC turns a tad sour.
Let's take part of Spoops' post as an example.
Quote:On the subject of in game mechanics into roleplay
For example, if you were to fight someone, say they are a lightning themed swordsman character, its no doubt they're probably using a Raijin, it would be bad taste to come out and say "Hey wait I know that weapon, its a Raijin isn't it?" when they've been RPing it as perhaps just a regular broadsword enhanced with lightning (Someone playing a Beldam Knight could do this), or conductive metal wires wrapped around a sharp pointed sheet of metal (A street brawler, perhaps), it is stuff like this that I see as inherently poor behavior, and can lead to disagreements OOCly and/or ICly.
That is why, even with the information you are provided, it is NOT ok to just use it willy nilly, to try and sound like you know things, that is why it is better to stay vague about things, compliment the lightning based sword, not the raijin.
However if someone wishes to stay within their comfort zone and want to try and RP that Raijin as a Raijin, and has made it clear that they are (or you can throw them a nice question in looc), then feel free, it is no one's business to try and dictate how you RP, but it is their own business to determine the quality of said RP.
This is painfully common, and isn't just a random example. Raijin as a weapon is indeed in the game ICly, as a raijin. It is a thing. But one of the parts of SL2 IC that I adore the most is the ability to bend things a little to fit the IC a touch better. Such as the example that someone might want to RP a raijin as another electrified sword given above. It's an important separation between IC and mechanics that makes the necessary step out of the MMORPG standard of 'this is your gear' to the much more comfortable freedom an actual RP has in characters and character concepts. It's the bridge between 'standard RPG gear' and a well-worn weapon weapon that's important to someone ICly. It's important to allow that for flavour.
The problem here is, of course, not people who want to ICly use a raijin or any given weapon in particular. The problem is, as Spoops mentioned, a separate party coming in, watching a fight, and claiming it's a raijin in character. This is just one admittedly painful common example, well put by Spoops.
But there's something that more permanent fixtures to the game can do about it- perhaps not as a fix, but as a limiting factor, as a buffer to limit just how rampant this, memeing, and the like are. Perhaps if we bite the bullet and risk looking like a dick every now and then, simply saying "hey dude, that's a little immersion breaking," and having a few kind words with someone who does it might make some progress at the very least.
After all, for newer players? It could prevent it from being a habit or convention for them.
For older players, it might function as a necessary reminder that it's super immersion breaking to others- and if it doesn't stop them from doing it, they might be more mindful about who they do it around. Afterall, it's just a different style to some extent, and probably would serve best from gentle reminders of preferences rather than outright getting up in arms.
And hey, gradual improvements do work on the odd occasion- I can think of a few people off the top of my head, without naming names, who used to be hella up to this sort of thing back in the day, but are less memethirsty now.
This isn't an outright fix. By no means. But I'm somewhat of the mindset that a gentle guiding hand in a situation like this can create a situation- if not a compromise -where all parties are at least a little less feeling like fleeing the game.
The Jojo memes are hella awful though, I've seen times where they've almost literally copypasted Jojos, and that's outright not allowed.
"Balthie" Wrote:Nanovelich, I'm not quite sure who you are, nor will I be speaking my mind about the prospect of wipes. But I will say this.
It's rare to see such a comprehensive and well written rebuttal, and I appreciate it. You're fine with the formatting, mate. I've been informed of who you are whilst typing this post, and I'd like to extend my thanks. You work has been invaluable to me perhaps hundreds of times in the calc.
Thank you, and you are welcome. Both of those mean a lot to me.
I'm going to make this post short, because I want to point something out that was mentioned earlier that I did not address in my first post. I'm not fully committed to this idea that you need someone's consent to kill their character. I do believe there should be a consent to have your character killed off, but allow me express exactly what I mean by this.
If you involve yourself in a situation where your character is likely to die, that's giving consent. I say this because I've been on plenty of servers with consent rules and often saw the same problem. People would play overly meddling protagonist-like characters but would cry 'no consent' at the first sign of trouble.
If you do this, stop it.
I want to see more villians, like Sawrock and Snake have said. Yes, wholeheartedly, but I don't want to see the villain stick handed to complete tools through a wipe system. I want to see more clever, politically-motivated characters who are going to pressure people to act not because they're running around murder-raping everything in sight but because they're going to make life completely unbearable. Villains who are in it for the long-game, not the weekend thrill.
Someone who's going to seize Cellsvich by the balls and force anyone walking out of the pawn shop to pay a heavy 'adventurer tax' and possibly seize any assets they might have wanted to keep. Not run around murdering people in B.D.P.'s to just steal their gear. It's a stretch of an example, but I hope you get the point.
That's why I hold the need for consent with death in roleplaying as this: consent is putting yourself in the situation.
If you're a bystander to something going on, whether it's some ruffian abusing another individual or the sudden outbreak of necromancy, you should have the opportunity to escape with your life. In the former case, you should probably be able to keep off to the side and not have to suffer being shot just for being around, though if it was meant to be discrete, I'd understand the villain's motive. In the latter, sticking around is giving your consent.
Not everyone wants to put their character's life on the line, so I understand the desire for consent-requirements, but these shouldn't extend too far. I myself like to play non-fighters, and it would be really annoying to me to have them killed off for being in the wrong place at the wrong time without there being a very solid reason behind it. However, for my characters who do fight, I accept that they might just die when they step into a situation that is either escalating or has already escalated too far.
"Balthie" Wrote:Perhaps if we bite the bullet and risk looking like a dick every now and then, simply saying "hey dude, that's a little immersion breaking," and having a few kind words with someone who does it might make some progress at the very least.
I'll state this here, because I've seen so many cases of it since coming back to SL2 go unquestioned by the rest of the community that I was at odds with myself for even holding comment. Many of you might dislike Soapy coming out with things like the PSA: Knowledge, and I prefer to keep from lecturing anyone on what they should or should not be doing. However, I approve of the message Soapy put there, and I feel that this point needs to be vocalized:
Your playby, the image you use for your character, should have nothing to do with your character.
Plenty of us are aware of this fact, but apparently, this runs horribly rampant on SL2. Of everything I've seen and tolerated, this is probably the most revolting of my self. It's not that these things happen. I'm not surprised. It's just how much they happen, and how little anyone seems to advise people even through the gentlest of means. I could name names, but I don't have anything against these people. I would prefer they learn and improve, because that's what I did long ago, and I'm sure plenty of us have committed similar misdeeds in the past.
Dropping the occasional reference, hidden under plenty of in character context? That's fine.
Using music from the source material of your playby? Stop it.
Profile battle and battle music aren't what I was referring to here, though that's also a bit distasteful in my eyes. If you do this, try finding alternatives, but I won't hate you for it. I'm talking about certain individuals playing music from their playby's source material IC, and even when they aren't musicians in the first place.
Really, just don't.
Quoting something from anywhere in the source material of your playby? Please, stop it.
You're allowed to do whatever you want with what's in your playby's appearance that you can't work around. Don't roleplay things that your playby has stuck to their person verbatim. I had a friend in the past who used Ene from Kagerou Project, and they explained the marks on her face as Glykin scales. This kind of stuff is fine. If it's an item, finding a way to incorporate it into the roleplaying environment is fully understandable.
Don't use Shinobu from Bakemonogatari, roleplay her as a vampire, and have a bike helmet that is a bike helmet for no good IC reason. This is an arbitrary example I made up from stuff I found in my collection of playby material. If someone's used Shinobu, I've not seen it, and this example is not about you.
As a bit of an aside, let me say this as well. Plenty of people do this, even Snake, who knows II bare him no ill will.
Using 'related' playbys is kind of unsettling.
When it comes to something like Touhou, running into another Touhou is just, "Well, what did you expect?"
When I see people, using playbys from the same source material and having history with each other, implying that either:
A) They made those characters together and agreed to this 'unison' of playby usage.
B) The second person saw what the first was using and said, "I want to do that too!"
it just really, really throws me off. The reason is that it implies a lack of effort. It implies to me that you just decided to replicate the relationship between those playbys and the characters of those playbys as an easy way to drop characters.
I don't investigate deeply into the cases I see, so I can't say just how many people are simply using related playbys and how many are actually doing carbon copy work. If you do the former, that's whatever. You're fine. If you're doing the latter, I really hope you'll learn that this gives you a bad impression on more experienced people.
And yes, I know someone is going to say, "This seems preachy, Nano."
The problem is, this is a public game. We have plenty of fresh roleplayers who haven't actually learned this yet, as common sense as it might sound to plenty of us.
And worse, some of them have not been taught this lesson and have become very good at the trade without realizing the problems they've not addressed.
Again, this is nothing against any specific person. I've seen people who show varying levels of promise do this, some who looked so promising I was actually disturbed to see them doing it.
As someone else in this community told me while I was having my initial, private rant about it, "We all have that phase."
So let me say in closing,
I'm not trying to berate anyone for doing so, even the more experienced roleplayers who continue to do it.
I just wanted to point it out, say it's a problem, and hope that you will learn from this and continue to grow and improve as a roleplayer. After thirteen or more years at this, I've come to hold the idea that fun comes first after seeing how much years of minding quality control ruined the experience for me. I've found no perfect answer to how to balance fun and quality in a way that satisfies even a closed circle, let alone an open community.
I wouldn't ask you to do the same, but find the balance that works best for you and makes you the most presentable roleplayer you can be without sacrificing your own enjoyment.
Trex basically touched on things I've been saying for YEARS, but was met with criticisms such as "baw you just hate memes you damn killjoy" or "SL2 isn't Roleplay mandatory, you tard," and "Stop being contrarian and going counter-everything" and other such things. Not going to say "I told you so," but it's nice to see that I'm not the only one who's basically still around at all due to emotional attachment to when the RP was better.
Before I get into the meat of my trademark "walls of text," though, I'd like to give a full background for where I'm coming from with all this, though. I feel that it's best if I explain my biases and get them in the open. So in this spoiler tag, I'll include details about my background that are related to roleplay, what I expect from settings I choose to roleplay in, what I expect from other players, and so on. Some of you already know all this, so feel free to skip it. But for those who don't - or just forget - feel free to take a look at just where I'm coming from.
I'm 27 - will turn 28 this summer - and have been RPing since I was 13. (And that's assuming you don't count playground games and kids pretending to be heroes and villains.) I've never been a particularly happy person (I was diagnosed with severe depression at age 23, and learning what I've learned about my condition, it explains literally everything about my life going back to age SIX, so yeah) and to me, Roleplay is my escapism. I get to step out of my own misery into another person's much more exciting existance. It makes my situation far more bearable.
Now. With what looks like 14 years of RP experience behind me, you might assume I'm some kind of roleplay elitist snob or something, who'll never be satisfied with anything but the caviar of roleplay. And this isn't true. Not only have I taken several hiatuses of years at a time in the past (SL2 was in fact my return to roleplay after about 6 years) but all I ask is for people to be in-character and consistent. No 4th wall breaks, etc. I also keep my own messages short (I do not do the big walls) to give the characters ample chances to chime in or otherwise interact. It's the difference between your friend ranting about something and you being able to chime in, "I know, right!?" versus being locked in place until they're done. This allows roleplayers of all skill levels to get their chance to interact with my characters.
Example of what I mean:
Ranylyn's Character: Ugh, that guy really gets my blood boiling!
Other Player: Really? He doesn't seem so bad to me.
Ranylyn's Character: That's just the problem! He acts like a nice person, but those judging eyes! That condescending grin! He's a jerk wearing the skin of a saint!
Other Player: I didn't get that vibe at all. Are you sure you're not overreacting?
Ranylyn's Character: Ugh, nevermind. The more I argue, the more upset I'll get.
(Compared to: A wall of text about how much that person pissed them off, that offers no chance for other characters to have any input.)
Now, because RP is my escapism, it's important to note how I see the game mechanics themselves. I see the mechanics as a vessel through which to play out the roleplay that you can't do without bias - such as combat. There are also those - the "way too literal" crowd - who see the roleplay as a vessel through which to spout the game mechanics. I do not like or get along with these people. I do not begrudge them for trying to obey the rules of the game, but things like moving in an L shape to unlock black knight are NOT In-Universe actions required to learn an advanced set of skills, and I do wish that they could understand that. However, I see no point in arguing with them since neither side will concede, so meh, I just avoid them when I can.
What I can't just avoid, however, is the blatant wall-breaking I see sometimes. Because that catches on like a plague and runs rampant until the GMs stamp it out for a week or two. For example, when Fire Emblem Fates was new, I saw a lot of "Nohrian Scum" icly. YES, IN-CHARACTER! In SL2's setting, what even is "Nohr?" Answer: Nothing. I could understand if maybe someone had created a guild called Nohr and everyone hated them for IC actions or something, but no, it was nothing more than "durr this is popular ima shitpost to be part of the fad." While I agree that there's a time and a place to be serious and roleplay doesn't need to be especially serious, there's NO time for this, not in roleplay. Don't bullshit me. Just stop.
That said... Soapy really hit the nail on the head. Completely. Everything Trex touched on (Number 2 most of all) has just been so commonplace for so long that there's not much we CAN do about it... unless we make the GMs put in some serious overtime to stomp things out and start handing out more frequent temp bans to repeat offenders. No one (except me, I guess?) would be happy with that, especially not the GMs, who do have lives and obligations outside the game, and can't just focus on it.
"But Ran, if you have such a problem with it, why didn't you speak up sooner? SL2 has some good people, maybe if people knew it was bugging people...." Don't give me that. I did. You know I did. I have a bad reputation BECAUSE I did. It's the internet; if you ask someone to stop, they do it a thousandfold just to spite you. Even if it's done in jest with no malice behind it.
It's not even like the community is big enough to split into multiple servers, either, so we can't just take lessons from... say... World of Warcraft with it's PVE/PVP/RP/RPPVP servers.
Still... something's gotta give. The game is either RP or it's not - and despite Dev's statement that "Yes, it is," there's still people who insist that it's not. Either it gets enforced, or the RP goes. I don't see a middle ground.
I'm going to say something controversial compared to the majority of what these posts have said, albeit blunt and the sad truth of it all: This post is redundant and nothing can/will change.
And no, I'm not referring to what Soapy said about it being too far gone. Heck, I've said that in my post. The RP on SL2 was splendid when I first joined, when there wasn't such a high emphasis on PVP, when LE's weren't implemented yet, when it took an eternity of grinding to even reach level 60 in the first place. Why is that? Because even if you decided to follow in the PVE route, it was more fun to do so in parties and have a proper RP/PVE experience. The game was so slow-paced and expectations weren't high for anyone, people had fun just sitting around and enjoying the slice of life RP. There weren't any events, per se, but there was the presence of an antagonist.
Sadly, what everyone needs to realize is that this was in the past and now we're in the present. Trying to base your opinions on how things were in the past is about as invalid as they can get. Everything changes with time, the world changes at an exponential rate within a few years. As more updates are presented by Dev, there is far more incentive to become a great PVPer or to constantly delve dungeons to get the new loot. Also, don't give me that shit about how this game doesn't rely on PVP or that it isn't filled to the brim with elitists. If you honestly believe that, you're in denial and probably are one. I have made countless friends who are either new to SL2 or are still trying to make a name for themselves but feel that it's hopeless. Why? Because you either have elitists who are completely ignoring their presence since they aren't up to standard, people who are shunning them for learning to RP, people who acknowledge that they aren't good at PVP because they're new. This entire system of popularity is flawed and it's scary how much it resembles a high school friendship system.
There is literally nothing that anyone, even Dev, can do to rectify this situation. It's redundant and everyone is spending an incredible amount of time pitching in their two cents on something that won't change. An immense thread began around this time last year, except the tables were essentially flipped. It was the people who weren't that known or who were yearning for their voice to be heard versus those who had already established their place in the community. How did that turn out again? Oh right, basically nothing changed. One person who had this delusion that making one post on the forums would catalyze a change failed miserably. My hopes aren't too much higher this time around.
It's honestly better to save your breaths and move on. If the current state of the game is too dreadful to handle, then do yourselves a favour and take a hiatus or quit the game. I will be completely honest here, a good chunk of people who have replied on this thread are people I haven't seen RP with anyone in ages... and if they have RP'd recently? It was with their friends because they choose to ignore and toss aside everyone else. No offense, but this entire thread could have been posted by one of the god awful "memers" with the same topic. This game's community is at a standstill. People who want to relax and have fun with memeing are too busy being looked down on and basically chastised for doing what they think is fun, but that's alright because it's not up you all's alley? Grow up. This thread won't change anything and things will continue to stay the same.
Start with the small stuff like events, antagonists, etc... Don't expect an overnight change to meet your expectations. Newsflash? Everyone is different and that was exactly the premise of my first reply.
A, B, and C are all bad 'things' for the world and RP in general here.
A almost immediately breaks immersion because the second you RP a spell as something other than what it's called (like saying your Fir is some spell name you've decided yourself) or RP it in some other way. There's bound to be some asshat that throws himself right into it and goes, "AH. FIR! THE MOST BASIC OF SPELLS!"
Why? Because there is almost always that asshole. I'm not saying I've probably not done it, but I've been working on it with my RP as of recent.
B. If you put OOC references into IC. Like you do persona 5 cut ins. You make fucking anime jokes. Make vocaloid jokes. Or worse? "OMG THIS PERSON IS USING THE SAME PICTURE AS ME. GUARDSSS ONEGAIIII" etc. Please. Stop. It's bad enough that SL2 has generated it's own wholesome memes that have actually become a staple of the game (Kronoded / 5 million Jokers / etc). Plz. Stahp.
C. This I don't have... too much of an issue with, surprisingly. The GMs are trying to liven up the otherwise shitty and toxic environment that is SL2. Sure, some of them fail miserably at times. Othertimes, they create wonderful gems. The issue, herein, is that honestly? Certain events they do need to not have 20-30 people in them. This leads to all sorts of stupid fuckery.
If they wish to hold an event, make an events post on the forum and have folks sign up to take part in it. Then, either by random selection or whoever browses the forums the quickest, let said players come along. Doing an event as a DM with 7-10 people is a lot different than with 20-30 people. 20-30 invites fucktardedness. The 7-10 do as well, but to a less sophisticated scale.
Now, I don't really play much anymore, simply due to the fact that like. All the GMs hate me and I'm not in the 'inner circle' of SL2. But I might give SL2 a try again if just some things change.
For the people who treat mechanics as IC, can't things be explained to them in LOOC so they can correct themselves at one point, or are we just being lazy here? If you are new, you won't know a lot how SL2 works, we're just being a bunch of brutes if we're expecting new people to see a Raijin and be like "Oh, that's a machete, ok!"
For the excessive fourth wall breaking, it happens only (at least from my observation) when the quality of roleplay drops from bad to terrible, and people have nothing else better to do in the game, and feel like they should stand off in a way or another. This, can also be fixed if you go in LOOC and complain directly to them, and if they don't comply, you can call a GM on them, like it already happened multiple times and I don't know why this is becoming a meme itself now. (As in, going out of the 'when people are bored' to the default RP.)
Excessive fourth wall breaking is different from trash RP. Trash RP is one you don't put a hell of an effort behind, fill the text bar with one liners while using some ridiculous FI, be it a chibi or whatever face people use when shit talking and wait for people to react with frown towards you abnormal IC behavior. In my opinion, Trash RP is what is killing SL2. Everyone wanna do it nowadays because it's apparently the ''only way I can be a speshul snowflek'', and this sort of hurts me.
So, a summary of what's suffocating the game's roleplaying environment like a city's smog:
- The Oldbies [i.e ''The Elitists'']'s lack of tolerance to actually teach the new people, or fix the current people with their own hands. The refusal of trying to show what RPing in Sigrogana really should be like and why people should take this game atleast with the minimal dint of seriousness. Or that atleast there are times you should be serious or not. It's hard to do? Yes. But the fruits will sure be what everybody in this thread is expecting.
- Trash RP by the non-serious [i.e ''The Casuals''] people, people are no longer putting effort into living their characters because it's a lot easier to just work with stand-up wannabe clowns. (Me included, I'm never excluding myself from anything related to trash roleplay, but I do know my limits atleast, it's probably why I'm notorious for being 'self-aware'.) And there's no other reason to give your all to make the game better, because 'its just a game why you heff 2 b mad', even though sometimes I don't agree, but I can't change anybody if I can't prove them there are times you 'should' actually try playing with a stoic face for once.
- Lack of new things to do, we're by the point where the game is already sucked dry for any new action. All we get is new PvP features. AND, PvP has been the focus of the game's development for quite a while. But I can't judge anything here, it's probably the only thing that's fun to code and implement in this game anyway. It's just sad that SL1 seems to have more RP features than SL2, and even a mini-death system.
- Antagonist oppression, like Sawrock stated, it's terrible to be a 'proper' antagonist, because you actually have >drawbacks< for being one. While the PCs can pick if they don't wanna die due to the consent rule, the antagonist, most of the time, doesn't have this choice and are often mini-banned for an eternity in the jail to 'pay for their crimes'. The balance of good and evil is overweighted in 'good', because any 'evil' that gets discovered (yes, discovered, people chase down anything they deem evil like it's the plague) gets shutdown in a blink of an eye.
This is just what I think. The server is only split in half between the 'non serious' and 'serious' because of this.
Are we really on the absolute zero in hope here, or just too desperate for immediate changes? Can't we give this another try if everything is approached in a different way?
Can we get new stuff related to RP pls, like, polished Event Tools for houses only?
Saying that nothing can possibly change anymore is just lazy. There is no requirement that everyone be allowed to roleplay as they see fit, especially if it's generally considered to be in poor taste (see: Jojo playbys existing to make Jojo references, Goku monks, etc). The fact of the matter is that there is no official line drawn in the sand, and until now it was uncertain how many people even felt this was a problem. It falls on the creator -- and to a lesser extent, the GM's -- to dictate how much of this should be tolerated. With some semblance of policy, GM's and players both can deal with this problem themselves far easier than what happens right now.
I'm not going to flood this thread with more walls, so I'll keep it concise: If Dev outlines what should and shouldn't be acceptable, there will always be the means to enforce it within the community. If people aren't satisfied with where the line is drawn, at least they'll be able to leave knowing where the cards fell, instead of being made to guess or hope.
I'll refrain from commenting on most topics in this thread, since I don't have much to add which hasn't already been stated. I do feel that I may be able to contribute a bit concerning the consent rule, and antagonists.
I think most of us can agree that, as it stands, a player attempting to play an antagonist has a vast disadvantage in this game. Most players readily jump on anyone who publicly labels themselves a 'villain', due to the usual lack of opportunities for 'exciting' or 'high stakes' roleplay. Thus, said villain is automatically at a disadvantage, but fair enough. However, any of the heroes who go after them may refuse to consent to any repercussions for doing so. The villain, on the other hand, has far less ability to simply 'get away safely'. Especially if players decide to bring them to the Guard, or the Guard gets involved for whatever reason. Regardless of consent, they stand to be 'soft banned', as I believe someone put it, on that character in the form of extensive jail time, and may even be executed.
Now, how much the Guard should get involved in things is a matter all on its own. I think most can agree that if one openly attacks someone in Cellsvich, Guard intervention should be expected.
I think that ultimately, the consent rules as they are prevent most antagonists from successfully creating 'risky' scenarios. Without actual risk, people react in fearless, unrealistic ways, which in turn further reduces the effectiveness of most antagonists. In the end, the involved roleplay fails to become 'serious' enough to really be satisfying to most people. On the other hand, if there simply was no consent rule whatsoever, we would expect to see most 'antagonists' simply trying to murder, etc. as many people as they can with little actual 'plot' involved. This would be an even worse situation.
I believe that one of the non-BYOND games I've roleplayed at in the past had an effective compromise between the two extremes. It had what it called a 'Risk' system, where each character had a 'risk level' between 0 and 3. In short, at 1 the character was open to violence in general and minor injury, at 2, to permanent injury and shorter detainment, and at 3 long-term detainment and death. The player was able to choose their character's default risk level. However, it could be temporarily raised in a few situations, which the player had to consent to enter. Some areas had a risk level, which all character were escalated to a minimum to while there. The homes/bases of your character's enemies counted as these too. To note, if your character was actually forcibly dragged there against their will, this wouldn't apply to them. Some events would likewise have a risk level that players were aware of before joining them. Finally, a character's risk level could be escalated for certain other characters as a result of actions they've taken. For example, murdering or attempting to murder another character would automatically make you consent to that character, as well as their close family and allies, being able to attempt such against you as well. Typically, most were 'take an action of this level, and they can do the same in retaliation against you'. Additionally, certain things like exposing dangerous secrets about another would often result in them gaining Risk 2 or 3 against your character.
Now, I don't think that such a system could be directly translated into SL2. Particularly, I don't think that actually encoding it into the system is something that we'd want to do, or likely could really effectively be done. The spirit of the system, I believe, could work quite well here. If the rules were changed from 'pure consent' to certain actions implying consent to harm to your character, I think the game would be in a far better spot. Someone playing a villain wouldn't simply be able to try to murder whoever they want, but they could harm the 'heroes' who attempt to hunt them down and fail. Certainly, that would make people more reluctant to actually hunt them down. That's the point. The villain would actually be a 'scary' thing once again, and the risk would be two-sided. I am of the opinion that the intensity and risk involved creates far more satisfying roleplay. Additionally, this solves an issue I've heard of on this game, where some people will decide to hunt down and kill a character. They get the victim to agree to die if they lose, but when they themselves lose, refuse to consent to anything.
Take note, that there's already a very specific, limited exception to the consent rule in the game. Characters can be detained for extended amounts of time and killed for 'breaking the law' as it is. Of course, it takes GM approval for someone to be executed, but there's no reason why they cannot also become the arbitrator in any disputes over what actions justify killing in retaliation under the rule.
While this is far from a cure for all the concerns stated in this topic, I do think it would remedy the stated issues concerning the 'atmosphere' of the roleplay here. People too afraid to die wouldn't have to sit in the middle of Cellsvich, and could still fully partake in roleplay all about without fear. I also think that many people would actually be more willing to take risks, given said actions would carry more weight.
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