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The Verglas is Half-Empty
#1
Since Verglas changes have been mentioned lately, I think it'd be a good opportunity to talk about some shortcomings and how they could perhaps be improved. First I'd like to outline the issues I found:

- Heavy skill point investments makes building for Verglas as a non-Destiny feel restrictive.
- Offensive skills are too FP heavy for a combo reliant class (barring Expanding Ice).
- Using Ice Point and Ice Point buffs takes too long to set up for what they provide.
- Icicle Spear is underpowered due to the above issues and because of it's mandatory set up with Ice Point Guard and lack of good payoff.
- Permafrost is a dated skill and takes SP away from an already SP hungry class.


Here's what I'd like to suggest to resolve these issues:

- Lower the SP costs on some Skills.
I'd say lowering some skills to 3SP would do the trick. I'd suggest ones like Point Kick, Rising Kick, Ice Point Guard, Ice Point Greaves, Bear's Might, Fox's Cunning, Hare's Agility. (I'd put Permafrost here too but I think I'd prefer it being changed or removed entirely.)

- Lower the FP costs on some Skills, mostly Offensive ones.
Point Kick and Rising Kick are pretty straightforward and don't do much on their own, especially when similar skills (such as Rising Tide) cost only 11FP. I think it's only fair they have their current FP cost halved.
21/22/23/24/25FP -> 16/15/14/13/12FP

Cold Front is a bit more interesting since it can knockback a fair distance and has more damage potential with Ice Point synergy so I'd say it deserves to be more expensive than above but not by much.
21/22/23/24/25FP -> 14/15/16/17/18FP

Icicle Spear is horrendously expensive to use when you consider the set up cost on top of the upfront 42FP one. There's a lot of changes I want to do beyond FP cost but I'll mention them a bit further down but FP-wise, I'd say it should be greatly reduced.
50/48/46/44/42 -> 28/27/26/25/24FP

Like above, Crawling Spikes is also too costly but is much more useful than Icicle Spear currently since it generates an Ice Point and needs no set up to do. I'd say bringing it down to the 25-30FP range is fair since you get the bonus Ice Point out of it. The only change beyond cost I'd like is perhaps being able to resize the line.
50/48/46/44/42FP -> 32/31/30/29/28FP

Expanding Ice given it's potential range and effect should retain it's current cost.

Rapid Kick, like Icicle Spear suffers from set up costs to consider. 10FP for the Ice Point, 10FP for your Greaves then 25FP for the actual Kick. On top of that, it also already has 20% less SWA than the Bear Skills despite damage being it's use point. I think for a skill that's little more than a boot flavored Thousand Stab, it should probably have about the cost of it.
21/22/23/24/25FP -> 11/12/13/14/15FP

While I'd say these Axe Kick and Face Stomp are probably the ones that need the cost reduction the least since they're fairly good at what they do, I think in the spirit of keeping Verglas' overall costs down a slight reduction is in order.
Axe Kick and Face Stomp: 21/22/23/24/25FP -> 16/17/18/19/20FP

While Ice Point Guard is not an offensive skill, it should probably be in line with Ice Point Greaves since the DEF/RES buff was halved and it'll at least reduce the Icicle Spear synergy cost by another 10FP.
20FP -> 10FP

- Change Ice Point, Ice Point Guard and Ice Point Greaves to 2M skills.
This would allow you to get the functional benefits from Ice Point Guard and Greaves without burning two turns worth of actions. It also reduces the effective Momentum Cost of Icicle Spear from 9M to 7M. As well as synergizing well with Chimera Style since that also causes other skills to be 2M, meaning you could fit in an Ice Point or buff between a combo. (e.g. Crawling Spikes -> Ice Point Greaves -> Rapid Kick)

- Buff Icicle Spear.
Lower the FP costs (as above): 50/48/46/44/42 -> 28/27/26/25/24FP
Ice Point and Ice Point Guard reduced to 2M skills (as above).
Make it so Icicle Spear can be used without Ice Point Guard.
Icicle Spear now (normally) has a range of 8 tiles.
Icicle Spear still consumes Ice Point Guard if available, instead this will allow it to have map-wide range as it now does, increase it's damage by 50% and apply Frozen (LV = Rank*20) for 3 Rounds.

Icicle Spear is currently the most expensive skill in Verglas' arsenal (since you need 10FP for the Ice Point, 20FP for the Ice Point Guard and 42FP for Icicle Spear, for a total of 72FP for one attack), it also has the Momentum Cost of having to set up those three skills but doesn't offer enough to justify the costs.

Since it doesn't do more damage then most 3M offensive skills and the Frostbite it causes is only Level 20, it's only notable redeeming quality is that it can travel across the entire map and while that is a nice perk, there's some skills that can also effectively do that without such a high cost or investment: Ghost Arrow, Shinken and Heaven Kick (which is something Verglas has access to) are ones that immediately come to mind.

I feel without Ice Point Guard though, the map-wide coverage innately might be a little much so I left that as a feature of the combination rather than a given.

Since Frozen is a more recent addition, Verglas didn't get it at the time of being released... however, I think out of all classes, Verglas is certainly most fitting for it and it's a suitably powerful effect for Icicle Spear synergy since it has the set-up requirements to not be too overbearing, so I think it's an ideal bonus.


- Make the Duration of Ice Points increased by the Freeze sub-talent, just like Ice Sheets and classify Ice Point Guard and Ice Point Greaves as Enchant skills, so they are able to have their duration increased by the Prolong sub-talent.
- Change or remove Permafrost.

Permafrost is a bit of a relic. As of the Talent rework, you can get increased Ice Sheet duration without this perk. So I think tying these effects to talents is overall a better step to take, considering this class is already pretty SP starved and this can sometimes feel like a mandatory pick up if you want to use the Ice Point buffs, which I feel they should just be lengthy enough without it.
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#2
A bit of a shameless plug but I provided a lot of good arguments over several related issues mostly pertaining to FP costs in a previous thread of mine: https://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic....amp;t=7440

So I hope that at least that thread can contribute to this thread gaining a bit of traction, I think a lot of these suggestions would be fine additions to Verglas, the only thing I fear from them is the possibility of a round 0 Frozen and thats really it.

Expanding Ice should probably keep its FP cost now that I think about it, as much as a winter wonderland does sound nice, it can get out of hand with things like Ice Skate very quickly given the right FP Sustain.
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#3
I would like to add another Skill in the Verglas arsenal thats so useless its most of the time entirely forgotten:

-Insulate
I had made a topic about it in the past, which in turn got it "Buffed" to cure and make you immune to Frostbite during that duration. Thats not really a buff though, since Insulate made it already so that you do not trigger Ice tiles, so in theory you had always been immune to the effects of Frostbite anyway, making it only a Pseudo buff. The Problem with the skill is that its too short lived and you are 99% of the time are better off not using it, as another Verglas, who you mostly use it against will just counter winterbite. So its certainly a skill that deserved some changes.

An idea I had that had nothing to do with the current Insulate but would make it a very good replacement skill while enhancing the idea of Verglas being stronger while sourrounded by Ice would be something like:

Insulate (Max Rank 3) 5 Turn CD
You use the sourrounding Ice tiles around you to absorb them and protect yourself with a frosty armor. during the duration you do not trigger Ice tiles, and leave Ice sheets behind using move.

You absorb all ice tiles in rank circle around you, recovering 1(+0.5 FP per rank) per Ice Tile consumed and granting you or empowering an existing Staus called Glacial Fortress Level Ice Atk(+20% per rank?)+ice tiles consumed*2.
Glacial Fortress= All damage you receive is reduced by 10+5*rank%, and the level of the Status reduced by the damage negated. Fire Damage reduces the level by 50% of the damage, melting the armor quicker.



Technically a Rebound that uses Ice tiles around you, but instead of healing you and sapping the enemy, it grants you an armor. Fire damage melts it away quicker though, so its not a Wraithguard and generally weaker in its HP it can soak up. It can also be changed to just heal instead, but I thought this makes it more unique, and a FP recovery skill they needed for the longest. Yes I am aware it's strong, but I do not think too strong. I generally just like the idea of Verglas to spread ice tiles, just to use them after as a resource similar to Ki or whatever.

Winterbite could need the damage portion of it be slightly tweaked upwards, as its numbers are still pre GR and everything else akin to it got a boost. But not really the thing people use it for anyway.


Also can I have my 1 M snowball skill finally? =O It even has a skill icon already!


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.rar   Verglas Snowball.rar (Size: 1.83 KB / Downloads: 14)
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#4
Permafrost could probably interact with the duration and LV of Frozen statuses in general.
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