Matador has:
>reliable AoE knockdown
>AoE protection ignoring damage that scales on Dark attack(which is based off RES, letting you build a defensive stat for wacky anti-tank damage)
>high burst mobility
>anti-heal with Cursed Wounds
>very high burst damage based on damage taken
which makes for an ultimately very meaty stance. It compares pretty evenly with cobra, which has
>high 1m(conditionally) movement in a straight line
>twice a round Snake Dancing
>really bad FP sustain
>0m Airborne when next to an enemy that resets repeat action
Snake dancing is strong, but you can't say Bellowing Stag is weak because of that. You can build to literally only use bellowing stag for damage and be extremely effective- Unreasonably so, even.
Matador does have a tool that, in the past, has stood out as arguably as good as snake dancer: Know No Pain. But, it's my understanding that in its current iteration, that skill is horrifically bugged. I do think that needs to be fixed as soon as possible.
Aside from that, I realllllyyyyyy don't think DH is in as bad of a spot as it's made out to be. Reaver stance lets you access all of the Soldier skills, regardless of what weapon you use which is kinda fat- Chaser is a decent mobility/combo tool, and rising tide is multi-hit damage, which can be useful for a couple different things these days. The only thing I'd really chide reaver stance on is that Rising Tide and Elemental Rave are both 1 range and definitely don't feel stylish. I already gave some examples of what it can do so I'll just be blunt and say Matador is monstrous.
Cobra is very good. No punches to pull there. Winged Serpent will be present in any good demon hunter build because the investment to use it isn't that high, and it's a cheap movement option- making it one of the, arguably, best in the game. Soldier and Demon Hunter don't exactly have any long-range mobility options, and Chaser doesn't exactly work great for starting combos, so Winged Serpent is pretty much... All you got. Especially considering the short range of Rising Tide and Elemental Rave.
Desperado stance is.... In a weird spot right now. I'd argue it's carried by the ability to kite from Winged Serpent, and that makes it viable in use for Shotguns. Once in a while, you might get affected by Hesitation and not be able to shrug it off- So having a decent gun autohit can be good for that, and having KD on 1 range crit is something we've seen to shine in conjunction with the Coyote. But straight up- Nitrogen drop is bad. It's not worth your time 9 times out of 10. There's a better option for unresistable damage in Demonhunter already, and it doesn't cost FOUR momentum. Nitrogen drop feels like it should be a combo tool since it's not that much damage(especially since guns can't get power upgrades!) and can cause big airborne groups. But the 4m means that the only people you're comboing are people who are four squares in front of you anyway.
Bullet barrier is nice. But it's super situational since it only works against gun users. If you're fighting a gun user, cool. If not, too bad. It's kinda like lead barrier from kensei in that way. It doesn't count that much in viability especially since it'll be similar styles that you're facing up against when you run into lead barrier anyway.
I specifically mentioned shotguns for desperado because not only are they the only weapon type able to KD with One-Hit-KO, but also because. Guns that aren't Shotguns typically don't get enough SWA to really use Lead Storm, and don't have the power to use Nitrogen Drop. Rifles and handguns abound, just about none of them are good for that stuff. You can argue jackhammer is good for nitrogen drop, but then you put yourself in a whole other mess of issues- alongside the fact jackhammer doesn't really synergize that well with lead storm.
But there is one more thing. And we should all know about it by now, I think. It was talked about from literally the moment the change for lead storm to become an autohit was announced.
![[Image: meme.jpg]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/676293089761165322/703804695453499412/meme.jpg)
Mutated narcus. Do you want to be incredibly large, take very small amounts of damage, and dish out literally chunks of your own health pool stacking up to 500 to people whenever you like? that's like, some SUPER free bonus damage, isn't it? But here's the caveat, my friend. You have to hit. Which means you have to build strength AND skill AND luck instead of just strength. Quite an issue isn't it?
NAW! Just slap a mutated jammer core on that bad boy and you can spin around wildly in order to automatically strike a foe and apply that bonus damage. No skill needed. No luck needed! Just Mutated Narcus and Lead storm.
But if that's not all, don't forget that you have synergy here! Narcus gains damage as you take damage, and sooo does Matador. It's almost like they're a match made in hell.
This got a little off topic, but here's the meaning of that whole rant:
Lead storm is really bad for anything that's actually a gun. For shotguns it's an emergency tool if you're a Magic Gunner, typically. It only finds significant use with an extremely specific weapon combo which is unhealthy because we can't exactly call it bad because of that.
Wild ride is a gimmicky effect that only does anything at all because of One Shot Wonder from MG, and shell effects from MG. It's not very good imo.
Clay pigeon exists, and I left it for last because It's phenomenally irrelevant. The damage you waste by trying to knock an enemy up into the air while you shoot them is going to outweight the damage you gain from them being up in the air.
That's my sum-up on Demon Hunter right now. Very good class. It has two great stances and two decent stances. With that lens elucidated, here's what I'll say on the proposed changes.
COBRA:
Stance itself: Teleport movement passively is a cool function but not necessarily that strong. That said, it can also cause anti-synergy with effects that have historically appreciated alongside Soldier and Demon Hunter, like Thunderhooves. I'm not personally a fan of it I guess? But it does make basic move, without any support, more useful. So alright, I don't have any immediate objections to it. It can kinda fit the stylish, speedy theme of Cobra too. I just wonder if it needs it?
Snake dancer: This really just makes it a much worse Ice Point Guard. I don't think this is a good direction to take Snake Dancer. I also note that while it stacks with evasion, it's a standalone proc still in this. I'm not really a fan- if the idea is to simplify it and make it essentially bonus evasion DR, I'd prefer if it were just a proc right alongside Evasion. Given it's a 2 SP skill still, I assume it's still a 2 charge system. So actually, I suppose it'd be more like a shittier preordinance. Since it still:
>only takes effect on attacks from the front
>is literally irrelevant against multistrike autohits(take a 200 damage thousand stab, you reduce a grand total of 10 damage with snake dancer. Yippee man.)
I'll touch on the adrenaline burn effect in the part about adrenaline.
Winged Serpent: Demon hunter becomes fat and slow, like the Soldier it's supposed to be. Given it does have the mobility 'buff' from cobra stance suggested alongside it, this isn't a complete crippling, but it reduces so much style potential and a lot of what I understand people love about the class. Even matador players very frequently use Winged Serpent as part of their game plan so I feel like this makes them needlessly hindered from moving about. That said.... Winged serpent *is* a very strong movement ability. I'm not opposed to a nerf to it, but I think it's something that needs to be done delicately. Given you don't have a momentum number listed to replace 0 outside of the special conditions, I can't give a clear opinion on this.
Leaping Lizard: No relevant changes, see Winged Serpent.
Descending Uroboros: Great change IMO. Makes this skill something that can actually be used. I still don't think it'd be used frequently but it fits with Stylish and Useful under this planned change.
MATADOR:
Stance: Base rage energy, 400??? Given it's rank 1 we at least know this won't be scaled up, so I won't slap this with a fat no but uh. We've needed spirits before now to reach 400. I'd rather see it sit comfortably at 300.
I also want to note the lack of comment on how rage energy is gathered now that Matador stance is rank 1. That's something I'd need to see thoughts on before I can really comment on the change to this stance, itself.
KNP: I feel like this base effect is more intuitive than what we have now, but I'm also convinced that what we have now is very bugged. So while I won't comment too much on this, I'll give a thumbs up to it.
Adrenaline effect coming soon.
Retaliate: Buster cannon, but again, but only on mobs. This is a very 'safe' change since it's designed to not affect players and hence not really matter to people who actually take the time to talk about such things. Hence, I'll refrain from commenting on this.
Adrenaline effect in the adrenaline section.
REAVER:
Stance:
squints Reduces the momentum of Desperado skills. This effect has a 2 turn cooldown. Okay, so. I get the vibe that's being gone for here, fluid swapping between Reaver and Desperado. But it feels really awkward, to me. Cobra and Matador are the stances that give benefits outside your own turn, so typically? You want to end your turn in one of those. That means if you want to benefit from Reaver's momentum reduction to Desperado skills, you'll usually... Reaver stance, and then use Desperado stance to use whatever desperado skill you were going to use. I guess maybe you could use it in conjunction with Chaser for something? It just doesn't seem like it'd work out well to me. The last thing I want to see is people taking Reaver just so they can shout "REAVER!" "DESPERADO!" and then just use desperado stuff without ever actually using Reaver skills, or vice versa. I think this needs to be rethought, though I guess I do in a way appreciate that very indirectly this can make Nitrogen Drop potentially a useful skill.
Rising Tide: See Winged Serpent.
Combination fighter: I think it's kinda unfortunate to remove the effect this did have, it was pretty cool. That said, for anything else, see Adrenaline section.
DESPERADO:
Stance: See Reaver Stance. I feel like this is honestly going to be worse about what I brought up than Reaver into Desperado.
Lead Storm: See adrenaline.
Wild Ride: Not a bad change. Doesn't really do too much re: wild ride but at least makes it a little more usable. I don't disagree with this.
Nitrogen drop: See Winged Serpent.
Bullet Barrier: See adrenaline.
ADRENALINE:
INTRO: So, this is a complex mechanic being added. I don't necessarily disapprove of it, but I don't necessarily see a reason for it either aside from making Demon Hunter even more Devil May Cry. I'll comment on effects one by one.
Snake Dancer: Miserable effect considering it consumes two levels at once. I feel like I'd be more pressed to not use the adrenaline so much as a dodgy with this effect.
Descending Uroboros: I kinda like that it's just a nice passive boon. Thumbs up here.
Know No Pain: Awful, awful effect. This effect straight up would make me drop one of the three between Guarding, Know No Pain, and Combination Fighter from a build entirely. Rising a guard break from dumb luck is a nightmare I'm not interested in living- and the rock paper scissors game would make the fight's pace so much more stuttery. It's not a good change.
Retaliate: With 10% base and 5 adrenaline ranks for a total of 60% lifesteal, yeah, no. Retaliate is meant to be the move you use to try and bring a battle to a close, not the tool that lets you sustain infinitely. I don't play tanks but I can imagine that, if I spent half an hour chipping my foe down, only for him to deal all of that damage back to me and then heal for 60% of it.... I don't think I'd be particularly amused. Not a very good change, and it doesn't feel like what I expect from Matador.
Lead Storm: In a build without Retaliate, this is kinda decent. A LOT more damage. More shell effects if you're an MG. This isn't a basic attack anymore so one more shot without clarification, means to me you just repeat the attack. If you mean that the attack is split up between two procs, I think this is awful. You can't proc crits and spark drive, so the big reason to attack multiple times is missing.
Summary is really just, bad, but not the worst thing in the world.
Bullet Barrier: Not comprehensive enough for me to properly review. One more shot per adrenaline is very good against singleshots- and extremely bad against multishots. Oops, someone shot a volley of 6 at you twice- You still took damage, and you lost allll your adrenaline stacks. Really unfortunate.
DARING DEVIL:
So, honestly, I think the thing that's made people give pretty short responses to this thread in general is this, because it feels like a troll suggestion. I'll go over why.
Reaver:
35 SWA!? All I have to do is wield a gun and a sword!? Well, that's better than two hand in every situation! I'm in!!! I can get 100 SWA if I monoclass!? Wow, it's like I don't even need options to do five hundred damage!
Desperado:
Oh boy, I didn't need to stack hit before with Lead Storm, but with 35 FREE hit, I can apply Narcus even more! A hundred free hit? I don't even need skill!
...But that's sort of a trap. The reason I say 'apply narcus' and not 'basic attack' or something like that, in general, is that you'll still struggle to do a whole lot with even a HUNDRED hit when you're.... Monoclass DH. The 35 hit just pads an already overpadded stat for X/DH, making anyone trying to actually evade everything have a hard time while having literally no effect against 95%+ of opponents. YOu need Skill and Luck anyway, because you need Critical. And that's what this skill doesn't give you.
Without crits, those basics mean very little.
Cobra: Okay, so basically you wanted on-demand Winged Serpent, but you don't want to SAY you want Winged Serpent, and you actually want it to be better than Winged Serpent. That's what I'm reading here. The mono effect means that you can literally spend 1 momentum to move twice your move, and with six base move? That's probably pretty far. If you're willing to splurge for 2m I'm sure Charge can take you some great distances. This literally isn't possible to kite without Cripple Leg or Celsius Shell. The mono effect isn't a big deal since it's still only 'towards an enemy', but in general this effect is insane.
Matador: Some men spend 7 momentum to gain level 70 guard. What does the Matador spend? 0. It's not like it ends your turn, either, but even if it did... Because it's 0m, as long as you have 1m after everything else you did in a turn, you can just tap that matador, and god damn, you are SAFE. Who needs to take damage without reducing 70% of it? The mono bonus is unreasonable, too, since it makes the only counterplay to this Nulling effects. Not really fun, imo.
This whole skill just feels like "oh man what if I could just do everything without actually building a character" and I don't really get it. This is not the kind of bonuses you should be expecting just for wielding two weapons that the class makes use of.
And I think you do understand that, Kunai, which is why it feels like a troll post. I know you've used all sorts of effective builds like Glykin Engineer/Rune Mage and, as a member of the guards, you should be pretty well informed on the game's mechanics. It sort of cheapens this experience and I feel a little silly writing out specifically the stuff on Daring Devil.
I think a lot of your changes are very unfocused and don't address the mechanics in depth, and would be tricky to make use of. That said, there were a couple of skills that I really liked your suggestions for, like Descending Uroboros. So thank you for your effort on the post. :thumbsup:
I was pretty critical throughout but I'll clarify that I don't mean to shit on anyone- but Demon Hunter is a class I've played in a multitude of ways over time, I enjoy it a lot, and I think the right things need to be looked at for any changes to it. Thanks.
![[Image: ht_pudding_the_fox_04_mt_140821_16x9_384.jpg]](https://s.abcnews.com/images/Lifestyle/ht_pudding_the_fox_04_mt_140821_16x9_384.jpg)
![[-]](https://neus-projects.net/forums/images/collapse.png)
![[Image: 400px-Nihilus%2C_the_Abyssal_Flame.gif]](https://shadowsofabaddon.wiki.gg/images/thumb/b/b9/Nihilus%2C_the_Abyssal_Flame.gif/400px-Nihilus%2C_the_Abyssal_Flame.gif)
