[Trexmaster]

A relic of a bygone era where once Evasion implied a 30% DR with no other strings attached.

This was before Hit and Evade were revamped, and most notably Evasion ultimately became a 100% DR with the ability to negate any on-hit effects when activated. Fortunite was altered to be a Glancing Blow instead, conferring 60% DR and negating all on-hits of attacks when activated instead of Evasion.

Thus Fortunite became exponentially more powerful and still at the meager cost of an item slot and 1m. Simply making it 'only' be a glancing blow isn't enough to balance it compared to what its effect was originally intended to be.

I present a solution:

Increase the momentum cost of Fortunite to 3m and prevent it from applying to attacks that ignore evade.

An alternative is to limit how many times Fortunite is able to activate to 1 or 2 times, coupled with the increased momentum cost of 3m, so it's more of a fair trade off.

If it's to remain at 1m, it should not block evasion ignoring attacks and should only ever activate once. It's a 1m move in the end and shouldn't be capable of blocking so much damage whilst preventing any on-hit effects from activating.

[Pyro]

In its current state, fortunite is similar to guarding. You use the last momentum at the end of your turn to activate it.
However, that is where the similarities end.

60% DR combined with an inability to be affected by status effects, be guard broken, or hit by evasion ignoring attacks means that for the price of an emerald, you have five turns of 60% additional DR with five item belt slots. This is applicable to both evade users and tanks, and in fact, is even more effective when used by the latter due to their weaknesses (over time damage, primarily) being nullified for an entire turn, alongside the damage resistance.

I believe that raising the cost to 3 momentum and/or giving it a cooldown similar to explosion are decent approaches to rectifying the issue, as scarcity has and never will be worth considering.

[sadbot]

I think fortunite, as it is now, might be the most wildly broken thing that I have ever seen in this game. Compare it to the likes of the mirrored enchant, which itself was considered too powerful and consequently nerfed. Mirrored usually panned out as a 1m guard for 10% extra dr and a 50% retaliation, which could be countered by ranged weapons as well as guard break and knock down, lacking as the chances for those last two may be. Fortunite gives 60% extra dr, doesn't even require an enchant slot, and has the massive added utility that comes with glancing absolutely everything. This covers any possible counter including evasion ignore, positive effect purges and evasion reductions/hit buffs. Even if it cost 3m this thing would be ridiculously overpowered.

I agree with Trex's idea at a stretch, making it cost 3m, only last for one attack and not glance evasion ignore. It still has absolutely no counter beyond evasion ignore, but this way simply carves out a niche as a way to muscle through or discourage the use of a powerful attack that you know is coming. I still think this is a little too powerful considering that it can be used on any build for the simple cost of an item slot, along with the fact that its still a pretty abusive edge case when used by tanks with no evade. Personally I would see it changed to a large evade buff that lasts for one attack and ignores the buff cap akin to a miragewalk buff on steroids, rather than a guaranteed glance. Given how free to use and widely available it is as a simple item rather than an equipment effect or class skill, I don't think it should have anything more than a situational niche.

[Poruku]

If it costed 3m I don't think we need to limit it to 1 attack that would be a little terrible. At least 3 attacks would be needed for it to not suck. Keep in mind it's expensive.

It should absolutely not ignore evasion ignore though! Especially stuff like damage over time. How is a stone making you dodge poison?

[InsainArcaneBirdbrain]

https://neus-projects.net/forums/showthr...p?tid=8898

We already have a recent thread on fortunite, linked above. I still stand by the ideas I presented from it for the most part.

[adamkad1]

Yeah, I prefer the other thread ideas too.

[Trexmaster]

I missed the prior thread on this but it's still just as much a problem as it was....a month ago.

The ideas proposed in the last thread I feel aren't enough to tackle the issue with Fortunite.

The problem with making it a 3-4m move while still ensuring Glancing Blows on anything that can be evaded is still extremely powerful albeit more situational, and should have a limit to how much it can mitigate. Even if it only granted 30% DR the new system of negating any extra effects of evaded hits makes it incredibly potent at denying a lot of weapons and skills in the game. It is Steel Aura and near-immunity to status effects for 1 round that can be refreshed as long as you have item slots to spend on it (so up to 5 rounds for most people, which is often the entire duration of most fights that aren't intentionally stalled out/between two parties that deal minimal damage).

It is a similar issue still even if it 'only' granted an extremely high evade buff if it still remained costing only 1m. It should function like Miragewalk and Disengage where it will disappear after a hit check is made against the user or perhaps more fairly, lower in potency the more hits are made against the user.

The major issue with Fortunite as it stands is that in a situation where you'd be taking aggro from multiple parties, for 1m you now ignore any on-hit effects of skills/attacks and reduce all damage taken by 60% on top of whatever other damage reductions you may have, making it nearly impossible to defeat someone so long as they have Fortunite available. It is the equivalent of someone spending almost all their momentum (while not being a Dullahan) on Guard then still being able to take a turn as normal with no reduction to evade at all.

[HaTeD]

Semi Short and sweet with numbers, but for the love of god I hate posting on the forum but it seems my recent limit testing drew alot of wanted attention but in the wrong areas. Let me answer for it.

Average non buffed evade sits around 150, highest hit with buff ive seen is around 300 without niche cases going higher. A disparity none the less. Call this the desperate act of evasion since trying to evade effectively outside of very specific class combos will not happen.

FOR FUNCTIONALITY AND THEMATICS, (for the love of god i am not talking about costs) Fortunite should break the evade cap and give between 50-100 evade in addition that only applies to the first hit check of any damage instance. This would; Stop fortunite from being applied on autohits (unless it is intended when dev changed the item for the gr2 update) and also not allow tanks to benefit (tanks, the people with no evade investment) from a free damage reduction tool before applying possible guards and other mitigations.

Now let me get to the specifics of this item. Emerald+Black Pearl = 3 fortunite at the cost of 100 murai per creation. It being 1 momentum is not the real issue, it's current application is. Should it remain for an amounted time and not disappear after a single hit check? I do not believe this best for the cost. It's still a buff, and like a buff it is subject to other mechanics in the game and can be messed with. Preparation and game knowledge is key to dealing with such things. Like skip, or funny red counter stone, even steal or null shot. :pepewhy: I'm sure there's more ways to dealing with it.

Now let's get to the bones of the debate. I stand by Autumn in a certain solidarity and patience to see a change in the hit/evade system as much as they and I argue about what exactly needs to be changed there. There's a greater underlying issue in the system that must be accounted for in order for this item's interaction within it to be balanced. I am for changing the item, but we need to be patient and slow down with all these balance posts lately for our game dev.

[Snake]

Evade is really bad and worthless as a defensive option compared to straight up armor stacking and 45 DEF/RES. This needs to be addressed by making either all Torsos have their base Evade increased by 15-30, or CEL grant more Evade per investment so you don't really need to be a fully maxcapped minmaxed Felidae with a Legend Ink on CEL playing as mandatory Martial Artist/Rogue/Bonder classes to have at least a 35% chance to dodge something, while having no other ways to mitigate damage. (And let's not forget auto-hits!)

Glancing Blows being changed the way it did feels more like it's helping the enemy than the user of it. I vouched for its change but now I see how precious it was to have a rng-based chance to not be absolutely fucked by Borneblood upon taking one single direct hit as someone with no PDR or MDR. This needs to be addressed.

Fortunite is guaranteed Glancing Blows for no stat investment which can also be used by these 45 DEF/RES people. This needs to be addressed.