Hardcore Characters, and 'Normalcy'

A place to discuss the game in a general fashion that doesn't fit the rest of the forums.
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Felkesste
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Re: Hardcore Characters, and 'Normalcy'

Post by Felkesste » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:17 pm

Come on, guys, this isn't a thread about macho-posturing, and 'showing off your common-sense'- like I said before, that's really discouraging to the players still learning this stuff, and brings the mood of the thread down. This is a fun thought-exercise, a little challenge mode, and while I'm sure you RP your characters very responsibly, professionally, and impressively, that's not what this is about.

There's a pretty hefty number of people who- after being KO'd, just walk it off. The game, and it's mechanics don't treat defeat as a big deal in dungeons- so the idea of treating it as such just doesn't occur to a fair number of folks. On the opposite side of things, the folks who actively avoid making those things into big deals, to preserve the character they've spent days, and days working on, playing as, growing, and interacting with, they're not -wrong-, for wanting to keep what they've got. Prior to having this brought up, whenever folks were KO'd, no one chased them down, and demanded they roll for survival, and I don't think it's right to impose that on them now. They're not wrong, they just value their characters, and are having their own kinds of fun.

I'm really happy to hear you guys are already doing this sort of thing, but please don't put everyone who isn't down, and please don't label this as 'common-sense', it's really discouraging for folks who don't do this. This is a fun challenge mode. Not 'how the game was meant to be played'. The game was made not to incorporate RPing at all, initially.

*EDIT* Having said that, I'm super happy to see all the positive feedback, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how your HM characters end up. Even if they die, I'd highly encourage sharing their lives here on this thread, a play-by-play of major events in their lives, the rolls they had to make, the injuries they endured, the close-calls that really got your excited, that sort of thing- if nothing else, I can promise to read through 'em!

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Tsundere
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Re: Hardcore Characters, and 'Normalcy'

Post by Tsundere » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:28 pm

I never tried to deny being an elitist circlejerker myself. It's a fairly large vice of mine but I enjoy it thoroughly. On mobile so I won't quote directly but Psych essentially made my point but better: this stuff is just the basis of decent RP, barring the rolls.
I get that people are trying to learn and are just coming into roleplaying, but I think specially labeling characters as 'hardcore' characters will give the wrong impression about how a character should be written-that mortal and fallible characters are not to be expected.
Just a brief note about inclusion: most players I know will not evade or deny IC interaction. I don't know what your point was.
SL2 was primarily built as an RP game. I like to see people hold up some sort of standards when playing the game.

Enjoy your hardcore mode how you'd like to, but I'm pretty sure you requested feedback and that's what I was offering. I won't complain more about it, just giving my stance.
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Egil
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Re: Hardcore Characters, and 'Normalcy'

Post by Egil » Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:03 pm

NaitoPsych » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:39 pm wrote:Making alot of assumptions here. I can think of a dozen people who do this on a daily basis. Assuming everyone is an edgefag who runs around trying to be the baddest of asses is kind've showing that elitism you're trying not to show. To me this comes off as 'Oh hey everyone sucks at RP so I'm bored even though I likely don't RP outside of my own group. Lets me make this totally original system and see if I can get people on my level.'

That being said barring coinflips I already RP my characters like this. You know, as someone who isn't immortal and can die very suddenly. If people are RP'ing their characters as invulnerable shits then they're doing it wrong.

On that note, not interested because if I did this with this system I'd be out of characters in a week because of a little thing called #Psychluck.

As for the lovers event point. Maybe some people are just content with being single. Or, if you're like me, you just didn't care for the event enough and was only there to show support. You can't just write it off as 'Oh they were scared to talk to girls.'

Long story short: This isn't much of a challenge as it is COMMON SENSE, LOGIC, and DECENT RP. Not fond of being dependent on rolls but I can appreciate it though, not being hostile I'm just an asshole.
Basically, this. I want more events and I want people to have more fallible/vulnerable characters, but I don't think this system will promote that.
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Ranylyn
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Re: Hardcore Characters, and 'Normalcy'

Post by Ranylyn » Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:38 pm

I think you misunderstand the term "hardcore" characters, though, Tsundere. It's just a common term for permadeath Game Modes, such as in Minecraft, Terraria, etc. In SL2, it'd just be a mindset upon character creation, and would not some kind of visible flag. You worry about giving impressions, but there's no impression to give. Unless a player personally comes out and says they're playing like that, no one will know. One won't flag their alias as "Character (hardcore)" or anything. Case in point, I've largely already been DOING this on some characters, and NO ONE has known.


And, I may as well share why I feel that dice rolls are crucial for roleplay, since apparently multiple people seem to feel dice don't belong in RP.

I've actually been roleplaying for 13 years (I started in tabletop games like D&D, but I've been doing it in games such as this one for roughly 10,) and I approve of using rolls for some things purely since some things are outside of your control. Say you're somehow dropped by a group of goblins, for instance. Do they immediately realize you're not getting right back up? Not likely; they're far more likely to want to ensure you STAY down. What kind of injuries do you walk away with? Do they stomp on your face? Skewer your sword arm? You're already unconscious, you can't affect this at all, and mechanically/visually, attacks are intentionally left vague to encourage creative roleplay. (Example: "Goblin Spear" can mean anything from a one handed poke to a two handed cleave. It could glance off your arm, or dig into your leg. A simple dice roll could indicate severity from low to high, and you can use creativity from there. You don't need a complicated D1000 system to include every joint of every finger, but dice are good for a baseline of guidance.)

Or. Movement. Say you're trying to sprint through uneven footing, as a BDP woud certainly be. Most DMs in a D&D group would say "All right, roll a dexterity check with a -1 modifier for terrain." If you pass, you're fine. If you just barely pass, you may stumble for a moment, but manage to catch yourself. If you fail, the consequences depend on the severity of your fail; you could simply fall but be able to scramble to your feet quickly with a scraped hand, or you can sprain your ankle and fall flat on your nose. And even seasoned runners can trip. It's just a simple aspect of reality. In fact, I was just playing a game last night with some friends; a friend tripped in the stairs (about 30 stairs from the bottom, and rolled all the way back down) as a crypt was collapsing, and had to drop some of his equipment in order to make up for lost time since he was over his weight limit. Dropping two weapons and his shield (guy was a tryhard walking arsenal) was just barely enough. (I also almost died trying to rush back to shield him from the faling debris with my own shield, and nearly had to abandon my own shield, but I passed my rolls.)

What I'm getting at is, failure has consequences. Call me an edgelord if you must, but a realistic approach is infinitely less edgy than "lol I never so much as get a bruise except for that one dramatic scar I willingly got purely for effect." Anyone can screw up. And dice are amazing for simulating odds and outcomes. While I personally don't believe growths should be as RNG based as they are (I mean, realistically you can choose what areas to train in, and what areas to ignore. Weight training won't make you a faster runner, for example) I do feel that dice more than have their place in roleplay. Now, I'm not saying you need to roll to see if you trip when walking 3 feet or lifting 10 lbs either. But if an action is more "intense," rolls to determine success are wonderful.
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Re: Hardcore Characters, and 'Normalcy'

Post by Soapy » Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:31 pm

I do stuff like this already. It's called proper roleplay.

There is no need for Dev to waste time on making that a gameplay mechanic.

(I didn't read any replies and only skimmed the wall because mobile.)

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Mivereous
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Re: Hardcore Characters, and 'Normalcy'

Post by Mivereous » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:00 pm

Soapy » Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:31 pm wrote:I do stuff like this already. It's called proper roleplay.

There is no need for Dev to waste time on making that a gameplay mechanic.

(I didn't read any replies and only skimmed the wall because mobile.)
(this was a post about a self imposed rule set, not a gameplay mechanic. first sentence of seventh paragraph, first post. this is general discussion forum.)

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I like this because it seems like a fun thing to try while alone, because PvE monsters don't RP back, so it'd be fun to give them some kind of action or variation of some kind just to break my boredom and loneliness. This would be a good way for people that are entirely new to RP to practice their writing and reactions while alone and/or people that are already roleplayers to do so while on the LE Grind™ (alone of course, since if you try to do this with people that don't like it they'll shit all over you for trying something new rather than just saying "not my cup of joe" and leaving it alone).

tl;dr this is a good idea for self-imposed SL2 Singleplayer Mode, which is a reality, because sometimes I do want to avoid all of you people, because you make me just as anxious as my first day on SL1 since I'm not a good writer.
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Re: Hardcore Characters, and 'Normalcy'

Post by Stenzio » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:44 pm

It's getting funny how people are against this concept so heavily.

Yes. This is what one would call the basis of proper roleplay. I think we all know this well! Now a -very- hefty question regarding that: How many of us practice it? How many people go into a spar daily in well terms of PvP, are stricken down harder than a mountain or worse, and simply flop down without any sign or sort of wounds on them? How many times do people tend to disregard any of that and just focus on 'fighting' itself while neglecting the other end of things? Surely I am not the only one who has seen a majority like that. The point is that I can see why people find this concept alluring; the weight and actual sudden nature of it brings tension. It brings a more strict element of excitement usually neglected or barely exhibited in most cases.

Other than that? My opinion matters little here other than just pointing this out personally. The entire thing is a -concept-, a way to promote a type of RP that either some neglect to fully commit to, or just don't follow. It is an idea that people can use, or just disregard entirely freely at their own leisure. No one is forcing another to use it, frankly a majority can just disregard it. So whichever one chooses, have fun! That is all that matters in the end.

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Re: Hardcore Characters, and 'Normalcy'

Post by Chaos » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:47 am

Stenzio » Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:44 pm wrote:It's getting funny how people are against this concept so heavily.

Yes. This is what one would call the basis of proper roleplay. I think we all know this well! Now a -very- hefty question regarding that: How many of us practice it?
This sums up my thoughts on some of the people responding to this topic. I'm getting the vibe that they're taking this way too personally/as an offense when that's not the point. For the crowds that are going 'IT'S A SPAR SO NOTHING I DO IS DANGEROUS NOR LETHAL' (even though i think anything that deals over 200~300 damage in one blow should be considered dangerous, beyond properly RPing a restrained spar) and the crowds that RP their characters as immortal edgelords that have to be force-fed the permakill of the law to die, this suggestion should be taken up. Of course, those crowds are more likely to either not touch the forums or not give a damn.

To be honest, though, I would rather have the 'RP difficulties' suggestion that was given some time ago be implemented. Perhaps as a 'Hardcore' mode; making the game harder due to RP factors with systematic effects, but in return, allowing you to progress through the game in far less strides than the typical PC.
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Re: Hardcore Characters, and 'Normalcy'

Post by Egil » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:44 pm

Chaos » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:47 am wrote:
Stenzio » Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:44 pm wrote:It's getting funny how people are against this concept so heavily.

Yes. This is what one would call the basis of proper roleplay. I think we all know this well! Now a -very- hefty question regarding that: How many of us practice it?
This sums up my thoughts on some of the people responding to this topic. I'm getting the vibe that they're taking this way too personally/as an offense when that's not the point. For the crowds that are going 'IT'S A SPAR SO NOTHING I DO IS DANGEROUS NOR LETHAL' (even though i think anything that deals over 200~300 damage in one blow should be considered dangerous, beyond properly RPing a restrained spar) and the crowds that RP their characters as immortal edgelords that have to be force-fed the permakill of the law to die, this suggestion should be taken up. Of course, those crowds are more likely to either not touch the forums or not give a damn.

To be honest, though, I would rather have the 'RP difficulties' suggestion that was given some time ago be implemented. Perhaps as a 'Hardcore' mode; making the game harder due to RP factors with systematic effects, but in return, allowing you to progress through the game in far less strides than the typical PC.
tl;dr force your character to be mortal and fallible in exchange for easier grinding/item finding/etc. I love it.
"Take it for granted. I dare you."

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