PSA: History Tab

A place to discuss the game in a general fashion that doesn't fit the rest of the forums.
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Chaos
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Re: PSA: History Tab

Post by Chaos » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:23 pm

The history tab is not an IC source of information by default, and there is a wonderful invention that allows people to figure out what can and can't be discerned through research and what have you called asking.

In other words, the history tab does not promote metagame; it's the idiots who think they can get away with using info their character wouldn't know that promote metagame. The idiots can be weeded out.

Also, I fail to see how having a 'mysterious past' makes anyone more approachable. You can have the most fucked-up backstory that never approaches edgelord territory and would be made into a game by Telltale if they got their hands on it, but if I find your character unbearable/awful, I won't even try to see what their past is like.

Moreso when some characters aren't completely fleshed-out badasses out of the gate. Some people start off as fresh-off-the-boat adventurers that are looking to add weight to their name and history.
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[12:53:15 AM] Chaos: don't hit dyst
[12:53:18 AM] Chaos: that's cruelty to animals
[12:53:20 AM] Chaos: you have to shoot it
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Egil
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Re: PSA: History Tab

Post by Egil » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:31 pm

Ranylyn wrote:*claps hands* Awesome. Sit down and pull up a desk, it's time for school. Why? Because you're just throwing the word "metagame" around with zero inkling as to what it actually means.
Oh lord. I know that you're on meds, but do you really have to take up this grandiose holier-than-thou mantle whenever you're clearly not taking them?
Ranylyn wrote:You brought this on yourself. And I don't mean with your images, but they just make this all the more satisfying.
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Ranylyn wrote:"Metagame" is using information you shouldn't know to garner an unfair advantage or otherwise game the system. For example, if a party split up, party B knowing things party A has discovered since splitting up is metagaming, since they have no way of knowing that. This also includes witholding information that should be obvious for an unfair advantage, such being too stupid to tell at a glance if someone is wearing a tank top or platemail.
SL2 Wiki wrote:"Godmodding and metagaming are not allowed... Metagaming is using information that you know out of character, in character. For example, you know that your friend's character is being attacked outside town. If your character does not know that, then it is against the rules to run to them and help them... It is alright to metagame to an extent; but nothing beyond talking with a friend or people on the OOC channel about meeting up for roleplay.
Obviously, it is alright to look at a character's brown hair and discern IC'ly that they have brown hair. What isn't okay is looking at stranger's history tab and knowing everything about a past character (unless they're a particularly noteworthy or legendary figure, then knowing some of a stranger's history makes sense). Sure, you can just list off the people who metagame as bad roleplayers and ignore them, but you'll end up ignoring most of the server and looking cancerous yourself.
Ranylyn wrote:So... What advantage does knowing someone's backstory confer you? Let me tell you what "metagaming" can be done by a history tab: A bad roleplayer reveals themselves as a bad roleplayer by not using common sense and mentioning stuff ICly they should not know. The person gets ridiculed and shunned, life goes on. What advantage was gained? What knowledge was used to unfair effect?
You mean, a shitstorm starts with insults lobbed on both sides and Chaos runs up and just tells both sides to shut up w/o anything productive actually getting accomplished?

Maybe that's changed with the new GMs, but metagaming can be pretty profitable if matched with godly OOC negotiation skills. Knowing what someone's deepest fear is through their history tab and then 'accidentally' showcasing the source of that fear to that someone, among other things, can dramatically affect IC while not readily coming off as metagame.
Ranylyn wrote:I also notice you've made no attempt to deny the mention of the profile crash. All things considered, the most logical conclusion is that you are a metagamer yourself, trying to hide your stuff so you can metagame harder, and are just throwing the word around to get what you want. You also do not post these images in other threads, meaning you are deliberately posting them just to spite me because of my other thread complaining about meme "rolaplay." I'm sure you thought you were clever. But we're not braindead.
... you're not functionally retarded, right? It wouldn't be ironic to call you autistic?
Ranylyn wrote:Want to prove me wrong? Be a man and stop throwing your "fuck the history tab" tantrum. And get Dev to fix your profile.
If I was stupid enough to bug my profile on purpose just to hide my history tab when I could just, you know... not write anything in my history tab... then I would deserve this faux-roast from you. My point is that all the history tab serves to accomplish is be run-off for the description tab which most people either don't use anyway or put 'find out IC'. Kudos to the people that write out a couple of pages of history for the convenience of friends or to stroke their egos, but I still disagree!

fuck the history tab

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Last edited by Egil on Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PSA: History Tab

Post by Egil » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:41 pm

Chaos wrote:The history tab is not an IC source of information by default, and there is a wonderful invention that allows people to figure out what can and can't be discerned through research and what have you called asking.
If I have to ask what can and can't be known from someone's history tab because they didn't list it in such a way that such information was easily gleamed, they fucked up.
In other words, the history tab does not promote metagame; it's the idiots who think they can get away with using info their character wouldn't know that promote metagame. The idiots can be weeded out.
I know you already said you were willing to ban most of the server since most people knew of the trade-to-yourself loopholes and never reported them, but since you never actually followed through on that, I'd hope that you're not cancerous enough to actually ban most of the server for their everyday metagame (which only got worse because of things like the history tab).
Also, I fail to see how having a 'mysterious past' makes anyone more approachable. You can have the most fucked-up backstory that never approaches edgelord territory and would be made into a game by Telltale if they got their hands on it, but if I find your character unbearable/awful, I won't even try to see what their past is like.
I'm not trying to be approachable. Not every character should be easily approachable or 'nice'; that'd be a shitty roleplay environment.
Moreso when some characters aren't completely fleshed-out badasses out of the gate. Some people start off as fresh-off-the-boat adventurers that are looking to add weight to their name and history.
I don't know if this is a jab at me, but my main didn't start off as a 'completely fleshed-out badass', but you wouldn't know that since you ignore characters that are 'unbearable' and 'awful'. Elitism must feel great for so many people to be elitists- and if you're a fresh-off-the-boat adventurer, then the history tab should be empty for you. So:

FUCK THE HISTORY TAB


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Re: PSA: History Tab

Post by Chaos » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:24 pm

Egil wrote:-snip-
-If people are playing the vague game with what can and can't be gleamed, then yes, they're a problem. However, I would like to believe that most people can gauge what can be gleamed without going into metagame territory. Asking is there for when you're having trouble with that, or want to make sure of something.

-That was an overreaction on my part, and if I didn't apologize for it before, let this serve as such. I usually perfer to try and work things out. IF someone is being too much of a problem with it, or just won't listen and continuously metagame, that's when I start throwing the hammer down. (Bug abuse tends to involve less ceremony)

-Not what i'm talking about. A character that's a complete asshole and/or endangers the lives of everyone around them for their goals can still be interesting. Any sort of personality can be interesting, though some are harder to pull off than others. I'm talking about the characters that come off to me as uninteresting. Yes, that's mostly opinion, but any one of us would be lying if we said we had no dissenting or judgmental opinions. (And no, this part of the post was not directed at you)

-No, that's not a jab at you or anyone else. There is merit in both ways of starting characters out. It was a response to Spoops' '90%+ of the reason i approach new characters is learning their backstories', because there are cases where interaction would do far more than a backstory ever could. Even then, a new character can still have a History tab, brief as may be.
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[12:53:15 AM] Chaos: don't hit dyst
[12:53:18 AM] Chaos: that's cruelty to animals
[12:53:20 AM] Chaos: you have to shoot it
[12:53:20 AM] Dystopia: ye

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Egil
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Re: PSA: History Tab

Post by Egil » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:35 pm

- I'd rather just not be aware of the histories of complete strangers unless they're legendary or famous figures (and I don't mean your run of the mill guild leader or monster hunter. My character is definitely not well known in the grand scheme of things, hence, no history for him).

- Sure.

- Okay.

- A new character can have a backstory but it smells of special snowflake more than 'good roleplay' when I can know your character at a glance and w/o interacting with them.

#fuckthehistorytab
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Re: PSA: History Tab

Post by Sawrock » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:40 pm

I like the history tab, but only for publically known information. Example, Bloeden was a wanted criminal by the empire, he could've written something there, as can the Commander of the Guard, etc.
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Re: PSA: History Tab

Post by Egil » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:45 pm

So 2 famous characters amongst 100+ non-famous characters warrants this feature?

#feminism #fuckthehistorytab
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Re: PSA: History Tab

Post by Maikito » Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:02 pm

My two cents:

tl;dr: Leave it up to player preference.

The history tab doesn't hurt anyone, but those who let it hurt them.

Taking it out doesn't make metagamers less metagamey, lol. At the end of the day, if you're a metagamer, you're still going to find a way to metagame in some way.

Also, sometimes I wonder, maybe people don't fill out the history tab, because in reality. Their characters are just walking carbon copies of one another with no real substance or background to them? Perhaps they want you to "Ask ICly" because they're pulling their "terrific" backstory out of no where.

And I can't tell you how many times I've forgot relevant IC information about a character I use to RP with from extended absences. And you know what? It makes RP go by a bit more fluidly if I don't have to pause the RP, break character and go,"Wait, does my character know X?". Maybe it would be nice to collapse the History tab into a conglomerate "Other details/Backstory" tab. But other than that, I think it should really be left up to personal preference.

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Re: PSA: History Tab

Post by Rendar » Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:06 pm

Anyone with an arrest record could put in their history tab that they've been arrest, for how long (and what for).

That's semi-public knowledge, as far as I'm aware, and a bit of research can dig that information up. Sure, you might not get specifics (See: Who they assaulted), but you'd get enough information to know that someone has been convicted of a crime if you dug up.

This can also go well with characters that do have overarching history, like my vampire.

He's been around since before Heaven's Contention, the likelihood that other Ancients (of sufficient age) would be able to recognize him, or moreover, be able to build up a bit of a history with me to have fun RPing with them, is there. Hell, serving in wars could go into the history tab as well.

General information that you could, given enough time and money, figure out is what I feel goes into the history tab.

Sure, I dislike the tab a helluva lot, but people throwing passive aggressive comments or telling you to go kill yourself isn't exactly doing much for the game (and in reality, should really be reported to GMs. So if you see that sort of harassment, report it.)
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Critical Hit! Galeon Zviera attacks Jammer with Floating Red Letter and hits them!
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Re: PSA: History Tab

Post by Maikito » Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:13 pm

Rendar wrote:Anyone with an arrest record could put in their history tab that they've been arrest, for how long (and what for).

That's semi-public knowledge, as far as I'm aware, and a bit of research can dig that information up. Sure, you might not get specifics (See: Who they assaulted), but you'd get enough information to know that someone has been convicted of a crime if you dug up.

This can also go well with characters that do have overarching history, like my vampire.

He's been around since before Heaven's Contention, the likelihood that other Ancients (of sufficient age) would be able to recognize him, or moreover, be able to build up a bit of a history with me to have fun RPing with them, is there. Hell, serving in wars could go into the history tab as well.

General information that you could, given enough time and money, figure out is what I feel goes into the history tab.

Sure, I dislike the tab a helluva lot, but people throwing passive aggressive comments or telling you to go kill yourself isn't exactly doing much for the game (and in reality, should really be reported to GMs. So if you see that sort of harassment, report it.)
Anyone getting passive aggressive about someone using the history tab is about as childish as someone getting passive aggressive at someone for putting Ketchup on their eggs. In case you didn't notice the motif there, it's the fact that it's their character. Let them do what they want with it, even if you find it weird.

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