Non-Resistant

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Selfish Gene
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Non-Resistant

Post by Selfish Gene » Mon May 22, 2017 7:45 pm

Hello everyone, I hope you're having a wonderful day/night and whatnot.

I was contemplating something recently as I have been making a wide array of characters and builds. I was thinking that maybe resistance should provide the added bonus of giving a little bit of status resistance (Even if it's only 1% per point). My reasoning for this is as follows:

1. At 15 base resistance, you gain access to the Anti-Status trait which provides an additional 10% status resistance.
2. It has the very word in its name, implying that it helps someone resist not only magic but other things as well.
3. A mage will burst you down regardless of how much resistance you have (For example, my 55 resistance tank still took 500 damage from a CM Exgalfa with 38% fire resistance on top of that). This is compared to building defense where the physical damage mitigation is genuinely noticeable from even a couple of points.
4. It has become universally known that if you are fighting against people who's purpose is to status inflict, it's practically impossible to avoid it (Unless you slapped warding on everything, have the three fairies, have a ton of FAI/Sanc, etc.)

I feel as though since faith and sanctity are both very situational stats (Seeing as some races yield drawbacks from building it) and faith is exclusively used for Summoners and Curates, having resistance offer a tad bit of status resistance may balance all of this out. It would be universally safer in PVE (Mostly looking over towards spatials), it would help people feel a tad more comfortable when facing Hexers and other status inflicters in PVP, etc.

Either way, I look forward to seeing what form of conversation this sparks and look forward to hearing from those who wish to pitch their two cents in. Let's try and keep this an argument/hostility-free post.
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Re: Non-Resistant

Post by GSM » Mon May 22, 2017 8:17 pm

I agree with everything in this post. I'm tired of mostly tanky physical characters and BKs being destroyed because of a Poison effect in combat, and I agree that Sanctity is neutral or outright harmful to build for at times- whilst Faith is only used by two classes. There's not a lot for Status Resist anymore- I think this would work beautifully.
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Re: Non-Resistant

Post by MegaBlues » Mon May 22, 2017 8:27 pm

I think the bigger issue is that debilitating status effects come tied to moves with normal damage scaling. Statuses -should- hurt, and the average mage won't have a large amount of Infliction (aside from Hexers, which are their own special brand of special).

I don't think that status infliction/resistance needs changing, but the power of skills which can inflict statuses should be toned down.

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Re: Non-Resistant

Post by Suspicious » Mon May 22, 2017 8:40 pm

I think High Speed Divine Words is the product of a bygone age, now that Charge Mind persists through multiple turns with Brainstorm. How would combat change with Evokers if HSDW didn't exist anymore? Would it better justify the ludicrous damage output through resistance of mages?

My experience has largely been that mages do not require that many stats, with tomes/spellcasting weapons applying their Power to most, if not all spells twice, and then to add frosting to the crap cake, they just dump into Vitality, making the tankiest players from an HP perspective spellcasters. Who cares if they don't have any armor? They have 1200 hp and can hit you for 500+ through your Resistance-heavy build every single turn without fail and control the battlefield to boot.

Something needs to change.

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Re: Non-Resistant

Post by Selfish Gene » Mon May 22, 2017 8:49 pm

No one is saying that status effects shouldn't hurt, we're saying that instead of making it so that it's either you're completely impervious to statuses (Which an incredibly small margin of players are) or bound to be inflicted no matter what, there should be a better way to resist it. Due to every build having some form of resistance (Racial bases, Aptitude, etc) it would help make it even somewhat more possible to even resist the status. The fact that I can be inflicted with a level 30 poison that is promptly followed up with Menov's for nearly 100 damage a turn is repulsive. That's part of what being a Hexer is. That's fine, I don't mind it. What I do mind is having very little chance to even resist that, to begin with.

As resistance stands compared to other stats, it's very lackluster. It provides magical damage reduction and dark attack, that's all. The magical damage reduction it reduces is barely noticeable in comparison to physical damage because magic is outright higher in terms of base damage than physical damage. Unless you're stacking a metric ton of guile, rocking Fallcall, have a high crit multiplying weapon? The likelihood of the base damage of the weapon is higher than a non-CM spell is ludicrously low.

As such, I think it's fair to say that adding a measly 1% status reduction per point of resistance won't be game-changing and break the stat whatsoever, but instead, make it even the slightest bit easier to resist statuses. It's not even just for mages, it's for things like elemental incises, frostbite, etc. Considering the very stat itself has resistance in the name and the old resistance pre-reckoning was as follows:

Resistance helps ward off supernatural attacks, decreasing magic damage you take, as well as increasing your ability to avoid chance-based status effects.

Edit: Fixed "status" to "status effects"
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Re: Non-Resistant

Post by Spoops » Mon May 22, 2017 8:52 pm

But in the wrong hands a build like an elf's or Glykin's when geared towards a healer is absolutely tragic to try and status inflict, for example, my summoner elf has 220 status RES, this change would likely send it to nigh-unreachable levels of status RES, that being said I don't think RES should get status resistance as long as Sanctity and Faith do what they do, nor do I know if that should change at all.

Status RES vs Status Infliction itself is a formula that just needs review in general, not additions, there is already too much stacked in either or's favor, in where you have too much resistance so that status inf. builds are useless, or you have way too little RES to where it doesn't matter one bit vs status checks.

Towards the earlier comment on poison, if you are a wall of meat firmly placed behind a shield there shouldn't be any reason as to why Poison shouldn't be your weak point, there are weaknesses with every build after all and you can adjust in many ways to combat poison, I'd argue 0.5% at the VERY most.
Last edited by Spoops on Mon May 22, 2017 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Non-Resistant

Post by PantherPrincess » Mon May 22, 2017 9:00 pm

Selfish Gene wrote:No one is saying that status effects shouldn't hurt, we're saying that instead of making it so that it's either you're completely impervious to statuses (Which an incredibly small margin of players are) or bound to be inflicted no matter what, there should be a better way to resist it. Due to every build having some form of resistance (Racial bases, Aptitude, etc) it would help make it even somewhat more possible to even resist the status. The fact that I can be inflicted with a level 30 poison that is promptly followed up with Menov's for nearly 100 damage a turn is repulsive. That's part of what being a Hexer is. That's fine, I don't mind it. What I do mind is having very little chance to even resist that, to begin with.

As resistance stands compared to other stats, it's very lackluster. It provides magical damage reduction and dark attack, that's all. The magical damage reduction it reduces is barely noticeable in comparison to physical damage because magic is outright higher in terms of base damage than physical damage. Unless you're stacking a metric ton of guile, rocking Fallcall, have a high crit multiplying weapon? The likelihood of the base damage of the weapon is higher than a non-CM spell is ludicrously low.

As such, I think it's fair to say that adding a measly 1% status reduction per point of resistance won't be game-changing and break the stat whatsoever, but instead, make it even the slightest bit easier to resist statuses. It's not even just for mages, it's for things like elemental incises, frostbite, etc. Considering the very stat itself has resistance in the name and the old resistance pre-reckoning was as follows:

Resistance helps ward off supernatural attacks, decreasing magic damage you take, as well as increasing your ability to avoid chance-based status effects.

Edit: Fixed "status" to "status effects"
I agree with Selfish. 1% status resist per point into resistance should have always been the case imo as well and its not asking for too much at all. I have a character with 30 resistance and anti-status and their status resist is lower than 45%. That doesn't sound very worth the investment.
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Re: Non-Resistant

Post by Selfish Gene » Mon May 22, 2017 9:04 pm

In my original post, I have clearly stated that there is the possibility to have a metric ton of status resistance, Spo. You need to realize that, as I said in my post, only Sanctity and Faith offer it. Sanctity is a detriment to some races and Faith is very limited in terms of who can benefit from it. I highly doubt that offering 1% status resistance to Resistance will be anything game changing. This game needs to stop being extremely mono-focused in terms of builds and be able to have things like status resistance cater to more builds than just healers and summoners.

I'm not arguing that the formula needs to be reworked though. As it stands, it's extremely unlikely to resist any statuses unless you are one of the aforementioned builds (Summoner, Healer, or someone who even built as a Status Resister for some benign reason).

And for the poison, I can't help but agree as well. There are many ways to cure poison and if a Hexer managed to poison you and use Menov's on you in the same turn, you should have tried to think ahead and make sure you were in a situation where it couldn't happen (i.e. Take advantage of Menov's short range). Not to mention some high HP builds are pretty dominated by races who outright resist or are immune to poison. Wyverntouched can stack an incredible amount of poison resistance and Glykin's are outright immune to it.

In either case, back to the actual topic of the thread. I highly doubt that adding status resistance to a stat that honestly should have it, to begin with, isn't anything game-breaking. The stat itself is lackluster, as I've said in my second post, and adding 1% status resistance, for the time being, isn't going to give anyone a heart attack.
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Re: Non-Resistant

Post by Spoops » Mon May 22, 2017 9:22 pm

I don't think you understand how good 1:1 ratio on status res to stat is so I'll just leave the discussion off at that.

Just know that it would turn medium status res builds into extremely high status res builds.

Hell, a new item was introduced to sort of fight against this issue as it was brought up a month ago, its called the protective paper charm and it adds 50 status res so long as you don't take more than 20 fire damage, that's a fair trade off.

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Re: Non-Resistant

Post by Selfish Gene » Mon May 22, 2017 9:27 pm

Pardon me? I do very well know how it is. 1% of status resistance isn't anything game changing. The forums need to stop focusing solely on PVP and realize the benefits of some things in PVE as well. There is so much more to this game than just PVP. An average tank build will have approximately 45 scaled RES and most people who don't build RES whatsoever only have a measly 10-20 usually. Last I checked, having a feeble 45% status resistance go up to 75% if they have 30 RES isn't the end of the world. At least it gives them more of a chance to resist statuses. Tanks who don't have a metric ton of sanctity and faith? Base 45%, up to maybe 90%? Oh wow, spooky. If you think a 1:1 ratio is scary, how do you explain sanctity? That's a 1:2 ratio. It's just a shame that some races get punished for building sanctity. It would be nice for people who play these races or don't want to play faith-reliant builds to have some form of status resistance, Spo.

Edit: If a build already has a ton of status resistance like you've been stating, the likelihood of them resisting statuses altogether is practically null. Only a very small margin of players attain that much status resistance and you need to realize that not everyone has characters like what you're describing.

Edit 2: Yes, I know of this item. But let me refer you to one of my previous points where you shouldn't be punished with very little status resistance just for not building into it.
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