Ghost Fu

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Slydria
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Ghost Fu

Post by Slydria » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:33 pm

Just a bunch of Ghost buff ideas for the lesser loved skills so they'll see a bit more use.


Death Gaze
Suggested Changes: Changed FP Costs, Increased Damage, Removed Unmarkable Condition and Fear/Claret Call mandatory requirements, added additional Claret Call effects.

Death Gaze has been in a really weak spot since it's inception. Even with the changes making it scale on 200% Dark ATK, it's still not quite there with other skills. On top of that, you need Fear and Claret Call before you can even use it and it applies Unmarkable for 2 Rounds. This all means this skill isn't really practical.
Cost: 24/23/22/21/20FP

A piercing gaze that seems to come from the grim reaper itself. Targets one enemy and deals magical Darkness Damage that ignores Armor equal to 50 + 100% (+25% per additional Rank) of your Dark ATK.

If an enemy is marked with Claret Call, it is consumed and this will instead deal Akashic Damage. Additionally, if the target is already Feared and Claret Call is consumed, this may instantly kill non-boss monsters or otherwise may inflict Silence for 3 Rounds.

Cannot be used while Blinded.

Reaper Scythe
Suggested Changes: Reduced FP Costs, Removed Unmarkable Condition, Guard Break applied before Damage, Increased damage from Claret Call (despite being magical damage).

Nothing too drastic, simply felt that the FP costs were too high and the Unmarkable condition making it feel more of a downside to use it to Guard Break.
Cost: 28/26/24/22/20FP

Axe Skill. A deadly blade that cannot be protected against. Deals Slash magic damage based on Scaled WPN ATK (determined by Rank) + bonus damage if the target is marked with Claret Call. If the target is Guarding, and is marked by your Claret Call, they lose Guard and instead gain Guard Break before damage is applied, the Claret Call is then consumed.

Gravestone
Suggested Changes: Increased Damage, Increased Duration at Higher Ranks, Increased/Additional Effects.

Gravestone while thematically cool doesn't have enough impact to be worth using right now, the damage is minuscule and the added effects not really pronounced enough so here's hoping to change that.
Creates an impassable Gravestone at target location. Anyone occupying that square is pushed away from it, and if they are an enemy, they take Earth magic damage equal to 15 (+15 per additional Rank) + 150% of your Earth ATK. The gravestone remains for 3 rounds (+1 round at Rank 3 and 5) or until you create another one. Enemies within 3 Range of the Gravestone will take triple the bonus damage from Claret Call and cannot be revived while incapacitated.

Painproof
Suggested Changes: Pretty much everything, it's essentially an entirely new skill.

Okay, this one is the most drastic change but this is because I consider Painproof to be the worst skill in Ghost's arsenal. Here's why:

It costs a large chunk of your HP for 30% DEF/RES. 30% sounds good on paper but consider the following: If you don't have a lot of DEF and RES, you won't get much out of this. (30% of 10 is only an extra 3.)

Meanwhile on the high end, 30% of 50 is 15. That sounds great until you take into account diminishing returns meaning that's not really giving you 15% more DR. Further, that DR you would get does not make up for the HP you spent to put it up.

The skill I'm pitching will hopefully address all the shortcomings of Painproof while being more unique and useful.
Costs 15% of your Maximum HP to use. Cause damage to yourself in order to lessen the pain you feel from enemies.

Gain a full damage shield with a LV equal to 15% of your Maximum HP + a bonus based on Rank. Before your HP is damaged, this shield's LV will be reduced.

While the shield is active, you also will take no ongoing damage caused by debuffs (such as Poison, Burn, Lingering Damage, etc) but healing effectiveness on you is halved.

Rank 1: Cost: 15% HP, Bonus: 15, Duration: 3 Rounds
Rank 2: Bonus: 30
Rank 3: Bonus: 45, Duration: 4 Rounds
Rank 4: Bonus: 60
Rank 5: Bonus: 75, Duration: 5 Rounds

Red Rain
Suggested Changes: No FP Cost but increased HP Cost, Applies a Higher Level of Claret Call and Fear

The problem I found with Red Rain is while you could use it to mark enemies, it was almost always better to do so while dealing damage (for instance Sanguine Star). By giving it a little more oomph, this will hopefully make Red Rain a little more appealing. The added fear also adds some synergy with the changes I've put on Death Gaze.
Cost: 5% HP

Use your own blood to mark enemies. At the cost of 5% of your Maximum HP, all enemies within Range are marked with an enhanced Claret Call (LV is further increased by this skill's Rank*5) and are inflicted with Fear for 3 Rounds.

Dark Imbue
Suggested Changes: Increased Duration, Increased Dark Damage

Dark Imbue is a little outdated and could use an update in the same vein as the Elemental Augment one. Making it last a bit longer and add a bit more damage will hopefully help out Axes a bit as they could use the help considering how unpopular they are when compared to Swords and Spears.
Rank 1: 20FP, Hit Bonus: +5, Damage: 10% Dark ATK, 3 Rounds
Rank 2: 18FP, Hit Bonus: +10, Damage: 20% Dark ATK
Rank 3: 16FP, Hit Bonus: +15, Damage: 30% Dark ATK, 4 Rounds
Rank 4: 14FP, Hit Bonus: +20, Damage: 40% Dark ATK
Rank 2: 12FP, Hit Bonus: +25, Damage: 50% Dark ATK, 5 Rounds

Fitting Form
Suggested Changes: Added bonuses for using lightweight Armor.

A big reason people prefer Kensei over Ghost is due to the passive "Evade" it gets, by adding some to Fitting Form, I think we can even the scales a bit more for dodge focused characters.
Ghosts, as in the spectres, do not typically carry a lot of weight in their appearance, so it is only fitting when Ghost duelists follow suit. Increases your Hit and Critical when using weapons with 5 Weight or less based on Rank and your Evade and Magic Armor when using armor with 5 Weight or less based on Rank.

Rank 1: Weapons: +4 Hit, +2 Critical, Armor: +4 Evade, +2 Magic Armor
Rank 2: Weapons: +8 Hit, +4 Critical, Armor: +8 Evade, +4 Magic Armor
Rank 3: Weapons: +12 Hit, +6 Critical, Armor: +12 Evade, +6 Magic Armor
Rank 4: Weapons: +16 Hit, +8 Critical, Armor: +16 Evade, +8 Magic Armor
Rank 5: Weapons: +20 Hit, +10 Critical, Armor: +20 Evade, +10 Magic Armor
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Re: Ghost Fu

Post by Grandpa » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:51 pm

I genuinely adore each of these suggestions and feel like it would put ghost on a bit more equal footing to kensei, alongside making these skills actually worth using. It's been a long time since I've seen anyone try to use... Well, any of these. I think the most recent thing from this list would just be gravestone, and that's from arena combatants.
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Re: Ghost Fu

Post by Snake » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:38 pm

My god, Death Gaze literally annihilating enemies or at least being like one of those Final Fantasy skills that set the enemy to 1 HP regardless of their everything. That'd be so cool!

Also the Gravestone making enemies unable to benefit from Die Hard or Second Chance is gold for giving them a new identity in group battles. Perhaps like I've suggested before, if such is a hassle to implement, applying a 10 round Interference to people who are under or at 0 HP is also a plausible way to go. (Except Dullahans, maybe... But that'd be thematic either way. They're already dead.)

I love absolutely everything written here and I'd like to see it implemented. Especially when Ghost nowadays is nothing but 'Ether Invitation memes'. Verglas may also need a similar approach too.
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Re: Ghost Fu

Post by Lonestar » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:52 pm

Everything in this thread by the OP sounds absolutely wonderful for any Ghost-users out there, and a much appreciated and welcomed change! It'll give Ghost some love that they've been needing on those skills every since the EI/WG nerf.
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Re: Ghost Fu

Post by Spoops » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:55 pm

Fixing Ghost's legs instead of letting it balance solely upon its crutches is a great idea, I can support most of this.

Does painproof's shield overshield for the record? Similar to Jarmor? That might be a little much given its huge bonus.

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Re: Ghost Fu

Post by Kameron8 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:35 pm

I entirely agree with reworking these skills as a means to improve Ghost. I like most of these changes, but have concerns/desired clarification on a few of them.
Slydria wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:33 pm
Death Gaze
...
Cost: 24/23/22/21/20FP

A piercing gaze that seems to come from the grim reaper itself. Targets one enemy and deals magical Darkness Damage that ignores Armor equal to 50 + 100% (+25% per additional Rank) of your Dark ATK.

If an enemy is marked with Claret Call, it is consumed and this will instead deal unresistable magical Akashic Damage. Additionally, if the target is already Feared and Claret Call is consumed, this instantly kills non-boss monsters or otherwise inflicts Silence for 3 Rounds.

Cannot be used while Blinded.
Removing Unmarkable, and leaving this skill without a cooldown, provides an infliction-free permanent Silence. Additionally, because Claret Call is trivial to apply, it provides a spammable 60-250 or so unresistable damage that can't be mitigated because of the damage type. I feel as if, on top of that, it's going to trivialize most PvE encounters to the point of tapping enemies with a critical hit/haunted soul weapon, instant killing them, then repeating over and over again.

I believe the numbers, cooldown, Unmarkable removal, auto-death requirements, etc, will need a lot of tweaking.
Slydria wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:33 pm
Painproof
...

Costs 15% of your Maximum HP to use. Cause damage to yourself in order to lessen the pain you feel from enemies.

Gain a full damage shield with a LV equal to 15% of your Maximum HP + a bonus based on Rank. Before your HP is damaged, this shield's LV will be reduced.

While the shield is active, you also will take no ongoing damage caused by debuffs (such as Poison, Burn, Lingering Damage, etc) but healing effectiveness on you is halved.

Rank 1: Cost: 15% HP, Bonus: 15, Duration: 3 Rounds
Rank 2: Bonus: 30
Rank 3: Bonus: 45, Duration: 4 Rounds
Rank 4: Bonus: 60
Rank 5: Bonus: 75, Duration: 5 Rounds
So long as the shield doesn't mitigate damage that breaches the cap (like Jarmor), and so long as the damage absorbed factors in Damage Reduction (unlike Frozen), I like this approach.
Slydria wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:33 pm
Red Rain
...
(which applies Claret Call based on it's Rank but increases it by an additional 50% per this skill's Rank)
...
Could you clarify the scaling? Does this mean Red Rain will, at level 3, will apply Claret Call level 25? And then with Gravestone, all attacks will deal 75 more damage? (Before crit scaling)


Everything I didn't mention, I think would make a great addition to the class.

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Re: Ghost Fu

Post by Slydria » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:15 am

Kameron8 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:35 pm
Removing Unmarkable, and leaving this skill without a cooldown, provides an infliction-free permanent Silence. Additionally, because Claret Call is trivial to apply, it provides a spammable 60-250 or so unresistable damage that can't be mitigated because of the damage type. I feel as if, on top of that, it's going to trivialize most PvE encounters to the point of tapping enemies with a critical hit/haunted soul weapon, instant killing them, then repeating over and over again.

I believe the numbers, cooldown, Unmarkable removal, auto-death requirements, etc, will need a lot of tweaking.
I see your point. I really didn't like the Unmarkable part the skill and found it limiting, though I suppose with the new values and unresistable property, I could see it outpacing things like EI which isn't really what I had in mind. I guess the unresistable property can be ditched. As for the instant death/silence, how about they both become infliction based chances?
Kameron8 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:35 pm
So long as the shield doesn't mitigate damage that breaches the cap (like Jarmor), and so long as the damage absorbed factors in Damage Reduction (unlike Frozen), I like this approach.
Yeah, it's got similar wording to the Jarmor effect but it's not intended to be able to overshield at all, just a purely 1:1 protection and ideally, it would factor in Damage Reductions before reducing the LV.
Kameron8 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:35 pm
Could you clarify the scaling? Does this mean Red Rain will, at level 3, will apply Claret Call level 25? And then with Gravestone, all attacks will deal 75 more damage? (Before crit scaling)
Guess I worded it a little weirdly but yes, what you wrote here is what I had in mind. Red Rain's Claret Call would be Level 25 at Rank 3 Red Rain and Rank 5 Claret Call (changed it to just add Rank*5 in Claret Call's LV so it's more straightforward) and then with Gravestone nearby would make it a 75 damage boost, if you feel that's too high, fair enough but I figured with the set up required (and how you can simply avoid the Gravestone), that it would make for a neat synergy without being too much.
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Re: Ghost Fu

Post by Kameron8 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:02 am

Slydria wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:15 am
Kameron8 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:35 pm
Removing Unmarkable, and leaving this skill without a cooldown, provides an infliction-free permanent Silence. Additionally, because Claret Call is trivial to apply, it provides a spammable 60-250 or so unresistable damage that can't be mitigated because of the damage type. I feel as if, on top of that, it's going to trivialize most PvE encounters to the point of tapping enemies with a critical hit/haunted soul weapon, instant killing them, then repeating over and over again.

I believe the numbers, cooldown, Unmarkable removal, auto-death requirements, etc, will need a lot of tweaking.
I see your point. I really didn't like the Unmarkable part the skill and found it limiting, though I suppose with the new values and unresistable property, I could see it outpacing things like EI which isn't really what I had in mind. I guess the unresistable property can be ditched. As for the instant death/silence, how about they both become infliction based chances?
Kameron8 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:35 pm
So long as the shield doesn't mitigate damage that breaches the cap (like Jarmor), and so long as the damage absorbed factors in Damage Reduction (unlike Frozen), I like this approach.
Yeah, it's got similar wording to the Jarmor effect but it's not intended to be able to overshield at all, just a purely 1:1 protection and ideally, it would factor in Damage Reductions before reducing the LV.
Kameron8 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:35 pm
Could you clarify the scaling? Does this mean Red Rain will, at level 3, will apply Claret Call level 25? And then with Gravestone, all attacks will deal 75 more damage? (Before crit scaling)
Guess I worded it a little weirdly but yes, what you wrote here is what I had in mind. Red Rain's Claret Call would be Level 25 at Rank 3 Red Rain and Rank 5 Claret Call (changed it to just add Rank*5 in Claret Call's LV so it's more straightforward) and then with Gravestone nearby would make it a 75 damage boost, if you feel that's too high, fair enough but I figured with the set up required (and how you can simply avoid the Gravestone), that it would make for a neat synergy without being too much.
With all that in mind, I like the suggestions. I don't know if the damage on Gravestone would be too high in that scenario, so I won't comment too much; the idea of being unable to be revived while next to one is appealing nonetheless. So long as Death Gaze is tweaked from its current iteration, I'd be excited to use any of these abilities.

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Re: Ghost Fu

Post by Chaos » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:59 am

+75 Damage on every hit is extremely powerful, considering how many tools are available to immobilize someone, and the immediate access to Duelist skills, particularly Fleur. Red Rain sounds fine, but Gravestone should stick to 2x the Claret Call bonus, rather than 3x.

Death Gaze could work if it was given a cooldown. Otherwise, like previously suggested, Death Gaze needs to lose its unresistable property.

The changes listed are otherwise solid. I'd suggest adding a redo for Rising Game, however, given how badly it plays with the current stat system.
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Re: Ghost Fu

Post by Hanzo » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:48 pm

These all sound wonderful I think!

1+ from me

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