Skipping the fat

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FaeLenx
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Re: Skipping the fat

Post by FaeLenx » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:36 pm

My best suggestion would be to have buffs/debuffs tick down whenever your turn is ended for the round. It would make buffing yourself as someone who goes last in the round not be half as effective if they're defensive.

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Hanzo
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Re: Skipping the fat

Post by Hanzo » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:40 pm

So, to point of this would be to make builds that lean on speed even more off-meta?

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Spoops
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Re: Skipping the fat

Post by Spoops » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:49 pm

Hanzo wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:40 pm
So, to point of this would be to make builds that lean on speed even more off-meta?
I'm sorry but initiative is a very powerful stat already, while I do think evade is currently a powerful stat, even if it wasn't for whatever reason (as it can just boil down to who's in the fight) that is not at all the point here, the point is removing effects for a extremely little cost effect like skip, its likely not intended for you to be able to remove Painproof or unmoving or geist schritt, or at the very least knockdown immunity as its a huge momentum sway, simply because you're faster than your target is.

Keep in mind a change like this is not going to at all encourage people to be slow, its just gonna allow them to actually utilize skills previously removed easily, even in a speedster vs speedster matchup, one of them is likely going to be slower than the other, this helps them too.

Swiftkusura
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Re: Skipping the fat

Post by Swiftkusura » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:25 am

One issue, and this pertains to unmoving, because of its poor design skip hurts it litterally no matter what unless *You* skip too after such a fix is implimented

Because you won't be able to move, immobilized, so unless you yourself skip you've just failed to do anything with it still.

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EenKogNeeto
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Re: Skipping the fat

Post by EenKogNeeto » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:28 am

Not going to check if I already voiced an opinion here, for or against in the past. Just going to relay some recent experiences with this: Namely as a boxer against other boxers.

Boxer 1: Uses Schritt and Attacks/etc
Boxer 2: Has to act carefully, uses schritt and uses an attack that wont trigger Schritt or gambles
ROUND END
Boxer 1: Uses Skip
Boxer 2: Must now re-use schritt or lose its defensive effects entirely, putting them momentum behind or worse if they don't skip.
Boxer 1: Now gets to do the usual shite of a higher initiative who skipped, plus having won out long term with Focus management.

This happened in several fights where I was a slightly faster boxer against a slower harder hitting boxer who probably should have won. Aside from some misplays and the like which cost them dearly, they didn't make any mistake aside from just being slower and so losing the lottery when it comes to pacing the fight with Schritt.

This isn't even getting into the shenanigans that Muuden can play in this matchup or matchups in general.


Similar experiences with ghost and painproof, every time I use it the enemy will skip to delete it. Usually you can turn that into an advantage for yourself if you plan around it, but it fuckin sucks to lose 10% of maxhp just to act before the enemy. All in all I can't see much reason why it shouldn't maintain until you act in a given round. If you both skip then the advantage is still lost if you act before them. Without being punishing on those who are slower. We have enough stats to build without also aiming for init.

Edit: By the way, guard already works this way. If you skip or end your turn it persists until you take an action.

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Neus
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Re: Skipping the fat

Post by Neus » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:27 am

I'm not sure what you're proposing exactly. That active effects on enemies that have until next turn durations don't expire until the start of the next round, if you use Skip?

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Spoops
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Re: Skipping the fat

Post by Spoops » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:45 am

I'll try to convey what I mean as much as I can, when you use an Until Next turn effect like Painproof, knockdown immunity or Geist Schritt, a player who is specifically faster than you are can use skip to force you into a less than favorable position. Where your until next turn effects will expire no matter what you do, whether you counter skip or not you will lose those statuses regardless and enabling the other player to in essence ignore those skills completely.

Or in the case of knockdown immunity, it allows someone to knock you down two times in a row.

So say you use Painproof to gain the DR% From it to mitigate an oncoming attack, but the player who is attacking you skips first, putting you in an unfavorable position, then if you counter skip or take your turn you'll lose that painproof status, what I'm trying to accomplish here is making it so that using skip back would not get rid of those statuses.

I almost fear having them get removed at the round instead could go wrong almost, well unless you mean if specifically the enemy uses skip, then that could be fine.

Almost like setting a clause to have those statuses only go away when you end turn specifically. Such as through end turn or hitting 0m, if that makes any sense.

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