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A Phenex with New Tricks

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:59 am
by Swiftkusura
Lets not pretend that Phenex aren't the least desired race in the entire game, when you see one it's only for a short time because they don't fit anywhere in the meta even if you cap their san hoping that their racial will give some yield *It doesn't*

You can be a phenex with 500 focus and die right, assuming you're at 500 when you die with -50- scaled sanctity. You will use 125 FP to heal for 250 hp

Now this sounds amazing right, wow, this man healed for 250 hp, what's he going to do with his 4 momentum he gets? Probably nothing because they're going to get up with their piddle of life with 4 momentum, because for some reason the only racial they get is a punishment.

Glykins heal for San/2 per round, gain a chance to reduce status effects that are over 3 rounds by a round, and poison immunity. Can't be bitten by vampires etc.

Phenex is...Revive, From the ashes, and that's it. from the ashes is a punishment, revive costs 10% max hp and requires impact revive to heal for maybe 50 hp to the person, so here's what I propose.

I want From the Ashes to revive after the person who kills thems' turn, with 7 momentum *It's not hard dying, why are they gaining badly beaten, if they are last chance should too then because of the same logic* And because phenex are designed around Phoenix logic, it would be nice if they shed off *All* status effects on them *Good and bad* like burning away any impurities of their body when they heal themselves. This also would go into preventing interference and the grand summoner soul chains from preventing their revive.

Re: A Phenex with New Tricks

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:08 am
by Raigen.Convict
this sounds cool, it didn't work this way before? Jeez man no wonder nobody plays them.

Re: A Phenex with New Tricks

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:10 am
by Swiftkusura
No, they get 50% of their fp as a heal, the cost is reduced by 1% per scaled sanctity and they recieve badly beaten which reduces momentum by 4 and 1 per subsequent turn, nothing else, it even uses the fp.

Re: A Phenex with New Tricks

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:00 am
by PantherPrincess
"Grafting" yourself back to life is hardly punishment or bad whatsoever... but okay. As someone who plays one, I don't really think they need much of a change besides small tweaks here and there. Hard dying/Badly beaten affects every single race, I don't see why they should be a special exception and rise from the grave with a heal and 7 momentum. Last Chance brings you back at 1 HP and requires Claret Call markings where as compared to 250 HP back and just FP to use. It is a signature CLASS passive which any race can take and furthermore fits perfectly with the theme of Ghost. You're comparing a racial passive to a class passive. The only thing they deserve is more HP once the heal procs for the expensive FP cost. Same for their revive.

Re: A Phenex with New Tricks

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:46 pm
by Swiftkusura
PantherPrincess wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:00 am
"Grafting" yourself back to life is hardly punishment or bad whatsoever... but okay. As someone who plays one, I don't really think they need much of a change besides small tweaks here and there. Hard dying/Badly beaten affects every single race, I don't see why they should be a special exception and rise from the grave with a heal and 7 momentum. Last Chance brings you back at 1 HP and requires Claret Call markings where as compared to 250 HP back and just FP to use. It is a signature CLASS passive which any race can take and furthermore fits perfectly with the theme of Ghost. You're comparing a racial passive to a class passive. The only thing they deserve is more HP once the heal procs for the expensive FP cost. Same for their revive.
A bigger heal would be too much, and regardless not everyone builds 500 FP or can maintain it until actual deal so the odds are you WON'T get a 250 hp heal.

I don't think a bigger heal is the solution, what I proposed would give them a fighting chance without otherwise making the already current effect stronger, also yes I compared a class to a racial, racial are inherently more unique than a class ability, meaning why is a class getting something that is hard dying them to their feet at all without the punishment when phenex are losing momentum for a skill that you can't "Just have" you contradicted yourself there, friend.

Re: A Phenex with New Tricks

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:07 pm
by Aqua
Raigen.Convict wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:08 am
this sounds cool, it didn't work this way before? Jeez man no wonder nobody plays them.
Thats not exactly true. Yes its rare you see them but it doesn't necessarily mean they aren't played.

Anywho to be honest I'd be more happy if From the Ashes, Revive didn't give the status badly beaten before the attackers turn. Of course taking into account someone faster than you would probably equal you to dying anyway.
PantherPrincess wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:00 am
"Grafting" yourself back to life is hardly punishment or bad whatsoever... but okay. As someone who plays one, I don't really think they need much of a change besides small tweaks here and there. Hard dying/Badly beaten affects every single race, I don't see why they should be a special exception and rise from the grave with a heal and 7 momentum. Last Chance brings you back at 1 HP and requires Claret Call markings where as compared to 250 HP back and just FP to use. It is a signature CLASS passive which any race can take and furthermore fits perfectly with the theme of Ghost. You're comparing a racial passive to a class passive. The only thing they deserve is more HP once the heal procs for the expensive FP cost. Same for their revive.
While im at it i'll blatently point out the obvious its not a Class Skill everyone can take, You clearly need to run Ghost to get it. Revive and From ashes work the same without Last chance. Sure you can say my point is invalid but i did say i was going to point out the blatent obvious.
Swiftkusura wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:59 am
Lets not pretend that Phenex aren't the least desired race in the entire game, when you see one it's only for a short time because they don't fit anywhere in the meta even if you cap their san hoping that their racial will give some yield *It doesn't*

You can be a phenex with 500 focus and die right, assuming you're at 500 when you die with -50- scaled sanctity. You will use 125 FP to heal for 250 hp

Now this sounds amazing right, wow, this man healed for 250 hp, what's he going to do with his 4 momentum he gets? Probably nothing because they're going to get up with their piddle of life with 4 momentum, because for some reason the only racial they get is a punishment.

Glykins heal for San/2 per round, gain a chance to reduce status effects that are over 3 rounds by a round, and poison immunity. Can't be bitten by vampires etc.

Phenex is...Revive, From the ashes, and that's it. from the ashes is a punishment, revive costs 10% max hp and requires impact revive to heal for maybe 50 hp to the person, so here's what I propose.

I want From the Ashes to revive after the person who kills thems' turn, with 7 momentum *It's not hard dying, why are they gaining badly beaten, if they are last chance should too then because of the same logic* And because phenex are designed around Phoenix logic, it would be nice if they shed off *All* status effects on them *Good and bad* like burning away any impurities of their body when they heal themselves. This also would go into preventing interference and the grand summoner soul chains from preventing their revive.
I wouldn't exactly say it's punishment but meh thats just my opinon. Im not against the change of Hard Dying/Bad Beaten while it interacts with Both Revive and From the Ashes. Even reduced momentum is enough to do something.

Phenex are a great race just not for everyone based on opinons. Ya'll gotta take that into consideration.

Re: A Phenex with New Tricks

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:41 pm
by Irene
phenex is cool you dont have to get sal volatiles

edit: on a serious note, like most underplayed races and classes, it just needs a numbers update.
phenex is a subpar race when it comes to numbers and traits, assuming we're talking about the current meta. this is for both 1v1 and teamfights. their sustain is flavor for the most part lmao


second edit: i've read the posts above. they don't take in consideration the meta. everything can work, but that doesn't mean everything works equally. there's no reason to play phenex over glykin or some random instinct kaelensian. not to mention phenex base stats are. . . below average. revive isn't useful because you can literally just use items instead. admit it, phenex is outdated.

Re: A Phenex with New Tricks

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:12 pm
by WaifuApple
If it's outdated, you seek an update to bring it back into the limelight. Personally I don't like the idea of balancing it with the idea of the current meta in mind. This "meta" changes far too often with the few constants that remain skirting along the lines of balance - often times the meta stuff is the overtuned stuff. The focus of improving them should be an all-around to bring them into further use regardless of what's currently popular / broken / whatever else.

They could stand to gain from their race being more than just flavour. Rising up only to be wiped down quickly after makes the racial as it is... rather eh. I could support not bestowing the momentum penalty upon them so they can actually do more until they get bursted down. It would be a pretty large advantage for them over just playing a different race with die hard since at current it is just that trait glorified.

Re: A Phenex with New Tricks

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:34 pm
by Swiftkusura
WaifuApple wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:12 pm
If it's outdated, you seek an update to bring it back into the limelight. Personally I don't like the idea of balancing it with the idea of the current meta in mind. This "meta" changes far too often with the few constants that remain skirting along the lines of balance - often times the meta stuff is the overtuned stuff. The focus of improving them should be an all-around to bring them into further use regardless of what's currently popular / broken / whatever else.

They could stand to gain from their race being more than just flavour. Rising up only to be wiped down quickly after makes the racial as it is... rather eh. I could support not bestowing the momentum penalty upon them so they can actually do more until they get bursted down. It would be a pretty large advantage for them over just playing a different race with die hard since at current it is just that trait glorified.
I wasn't exactly doing it fully with meta in mind, it was more to say they just don't belong in it in my opinion, the only reason I threw in the "Burn off statuses" is because interference and spirit chains stops them from using from the ashes, which is why I made it burn off good statuses too so it'd be fair, does that make sense?

Re: A Phenex with New Tricks

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:36 pm
by WaifuApple
This was moreso about the comments saying that the thread doesn't have meta in mind. Not everything needs to be about the meta. Heck, if anything, it gets far too much priority over making fun builds and enjoying yourself because people just value victory too much.