Dullahans no weakness?

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Shujin
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Dullahans no weakness?

Post by Shujin » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:47 pm

Its a thing I noticed ages ago, many believed it was the case but it isn't...

Can they get a weakness to Holy? They are possessed Armor, and one of the strongest races we have with one of the strongest Rush strategies possible (cause of their high momentum). Or at the very least give them a Weakness to it when they go into their berserk state amd/or Soul Burned, so there is a counter window..

Its just strange to me why they do not actually count as possessed, they quickly overshadow Vampires in strength and their only penalty is basically not being able to drink potions to heal and a stun that can be used in your own favour, though other healing stuff works just fine. Not to mention that they get a passive "tank" skill in the form of reduced critical damage, poison immunity and are the only race that can shrug off Interference for the most part.

Long story short, their advantages heavily outweight their disadvantages and it seems logical to me from an IC standpoint that an holy weapon, which works against possessed, works against them.

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Re: Dullahans no weakness?

Post by Snake » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:53 pm

For a race that ignores Interference and significantly reduces Critical Damage? I'm very sure they are worth a Holy weakness, if any are attributed.
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Irene
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Re: Dullahans no weakness?

Post by Irene » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:14 am

God Yes, Dullahans are in serious need for nerfs and/or changes. Insane immunities, insane base stats and point efficiency, insane 1v1 potential, insane teamfight potential.

There is really barely any weakness.

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Re: Dullahans no weakness?

Post by Spoops » Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:54 pm

I think that is a little bit of an exaggeration, their weakness was pre-GR when they'd run out of FP fairly quickly and often spend turns skipped, they need to have that power to make up for it (also they have the same base stats as everyone else, 40 total.)

A holy weakness is a good start, alternatively we could reel back on that previous weakness and make it so they don't gain nigh immunity to interference at high enough SAN, that'd cause the status to impact them again (Maybe 30 + Half SAN% Interference resistance.)

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Re: Dullahans no weakness?

Post by FaeLenx » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:47 pm

The race that always wears a mayelia so they can heal and gain FP while getting 50% DR?

In a game of resource management, they get a free pass on most of it.

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Re: Dullahans no weakness?

Post by Spoops » Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:33 pm

FaeLenx wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:47 pm
The race that always wears a mayelia so they can heal and gain FP while getting 50% DR?

In a game of resource management, they get a free pass on most of it.
Soul Burn's stun doesn't grant you stun's DR and Mayelia is a remnant of pre-GR where the 15% HP Regen was actually okay, because defense wasn't percentage based and HP was about only less than half of what it is now.

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Re: Dullahans no weakness?

Post by WaifuApple » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:42 pm

If we're talking about dullahans needing a bit of nerf, I'd also gesture to the ease in which they can get invocations off when in soul rage - within the space of an entire turn, they can chant and cast a spell with ease, and counterplay can be somewhat difficult. My suggestion would be to make a raging dullahan unable to start invocations.
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Roland_Staghare
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Re: Dullahans no weakness?

Post by Roland_Staghare » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:08 pm

Alright, so here's my beef. I don't think a weakness to holy is ultimately going to change much, 90% of dullahans will only see a marginal increase to damage taken, and it'll overly punish the few with builds that aren't stacking def and res to hell and back, which aren't really the problem childs to begin with (which again, is very few of them, tank is overwhelming majority of dullahans for obvious reasons). Not being able to use HiPots is actually already pretty huge, as they tend to be the most intense single action healing in the game. It can genuinely feel crippling at points in 1v1.

Now, I'll get to my issues with dullahan itself. Yes, a number of builds with dullahans are busted, but most of them come down to how nuts soul rage is. Being able to absolutely fart out invocations for three turns gives them some of the most impressive burst damage in the game. Poison immunity is huge, yes, but honestly I feel like poison, like most of the DoT status effects, tends to be incredibly overbearing in most situations to begin with, and might need getting looked at, at some point. The only one that feels balanced is really burn, and that has more to do with EVERYONE having access to very easy fire resists, absorbs, and so on. (mechs, phenexes, hyattrs, mayelia, fire walkers, comc, kouenjin, red letter, I know I've missed more than a few here) Instead they all feel too easy to simply reapply immediately while still doing big damaging smacks with the same move. But that's ultimately a subject for another thread.

With regards to mayelia, I think the issue is more with mayelia itself, particularly considering the optimal way to play dullahan is with a caster, which is the other place where mayelia is exceptionally strong and can allow dullahans to erase their primary weakness, soul burn stun. Using stone dragon into air pressure to cause a mutual stun to recover health and then possibly proc another single stun soon after to recover 30% of their health is an extremely strong option, particularly since that literally heals you of your soul rage damage. Mayelia is can already be a pain to deal with when someone's popping the SD/AP combo without being dullahan. Its a great way to eat into other player's action economies by wearing down buff durations and healing yourself at the same time.

As I see it, the main features of dullahans at current is being either broken evocation casters, great boxers, great soldier class, good tank duelists, a solid if gimmicky arbalist, and being frankly garbage everything else. Not being able to proc evasion, be classified as wearing any type of armor other than heavy, awful faith, will, cel, luck, and guile, it all thoroughly pigeon holes them into a few builds where they are extremely good, but gives them very little breathing room outside of them. Their balance is ultimately precarious, and ultimately a lot of their strength in being casters purely comes from being able to soul rage and use mayelia.

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Re: Dullahans no weakness?

Post by Spoops » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:34 pm

the main issue with dullahans is mostly Invocations and Mayelia sustaining them a little hard, them being disabled from using potions on themselves is actually pretty dang huge, its the momentum of Soul Rage that sets them aside from the rest that don't use this skill.

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Re: Dullahans no weakness?

Post by Lolzytripd » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:51 am

Yeah...imagine a world where dullahans could yolo 5m large potions and still do stuff

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