Squint Petale

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Grandpa
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Squint Petale

Post by Grandpa » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:35 pm

Vent Petale is a pretty cool skill that actually promotes the use of dual wielding weapons rather than focusing on a single one.

Unfortunately, more often than not, it's still more worth it to just focus on one weapon, and I personally believe that's because Vent Petale is so limited. A sword and spear flows in a flowery style, but I could be made to believe other combinations could do the same.

My suggestion is that the limitations of Vent Petale are changed to allow for more creativity. Two weapons, so long as they aren't the same type, should be able to receive the benefits when used in tandem. On the one hand, we would be seeing a lot more duelists with a bit more defense and skill but on the other hand, we'll be seeing a lot more interesting combinations and variety. At least I think so, anyway.
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Re: Squint Petale

Post by Spoops » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:40 pm

So long as it doesn't synergize too well with Mixed Martial Arts (Where in you gain both 2hand AND vent petale as a result) I can't see this being a half bad idea.

I should mention as a safety net it should probably promote still using Duelist's primary weapons and be tied to the passive itself, so my initial idea would be "Hey this is good for dual wielding a sword + gun or sword + dagger" or spear or how you not.

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Re: Squint Petale

Post by Fern » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:48 am

I'm of the opinion that dual wielding should get more support to it. It may not seem like it at first glance, but more often than not Two Handing is the optimal way to run things. Now, I'm not saying this is always the case, but it is pretty frequent when you compare the benefits of 2-handing versus running two weapons at once. The main difference being that the former generally overshadows the latter's attack power.

While yes, dual wielding provides more utility and the ability to get 1 more Momentum by critical hitting with your other weapon, this is usually not enough to become as appealing as 2-handing in my eyes. The damage difference tends to be big when you stack damage modifiers.

I'm not saying 2-handing is overpowered. I don't think it is - I believe the problem is that dual wielding is weaker in comparison overall at the moment.

So yes, I think Vent Petale being less restrictive would not only make Duelist more fun as a class, but also encourage more build variety overall. Not saying Duelist is boring, because it isn't (at least to me), but I don't see this change harming the game much. I think it'd be pretty cool actually.

The safety net of making it require one of the weapons to be a Sword or Spear, maybe Axe too, sounds fine too.
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Re: Squint Petale

Post by MakeshiftWalrus » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:20 pm

I've moved this to balance fu, because it really is a balance fu topic.

While I'd very much like to see things beyond sword and spear being used for it, I don't think it should work with weapons beyond martial weapons, and daggers. So, that would be any combination of swords, spears, axes and daggers.

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Re: Squint Petale

Post by Snake » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:13 am

Limited to melee weapons only is definitely the way to go there, I reckon. Though it makes me wish Demon Hunter had something like this, that made them work better with Sword and Gun dual-wielded, like GunKata.
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Re: Squint Petale

Post by Spoops » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:01 am

I don't know, if it was only limited to melee weapons I'd be kinda sad, I'd like to see some synergy between sword and gun or sword and tome combos, especially because I think Dualpower doesn't really have enough to support that either.

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Re: Squint Petale

Post by Grandpa » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:01 am

Honestly, let's think up some of the most broken combinations if used with any weapon combination just to see how bad it could theoretically get.

Personally I don't think it could go too wrong until you throw other classes people generally see as too strong into the mix (ghost) but then the problem lies more on those classes than Vent Petale.
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Re: Squint Petale

Post by MakeshiftWalrus » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:04 am

The limit of martial weaponry is to keep the skill's identity. It doesn't make very much sense for a duelist to benefit from pulling out a gun, or a tome. I don't think it'd be particularly overpowered in any regard, I just don't personally think it would fit the theme very much.

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Re: Squint Petale

Post by Fern » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:55 am

I can agree with it not being too fitting for the theme of Vent Petale, but I think it'd toss more fun into the mix. I can't imagine it going wrong in the balance department myself without diving -too deep- into the meta department. And at that point the issue wouldn't be Vent Petale on its own, anyway.

I think prioritizing fun over theming is fine in this case though. It leads to more creativity if there's more freedom with it.
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Re: Squint Petale

Post by Sawrock » Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:36 pm

Why not just gives guns/bows the bonus as well, but not at full power? Maybe half the stats or something?
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