Excel Line Issues

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Spoops
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Excel Line Issues

Post by Spoops » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:05 pm

Excel Line weapons such as Excel Saber/Excellion/Excelgraph all do not scale very well, due to how SWA scales often enough having a lower total value makes the weapon scale drastically lower than others, so something like a 75% STR Scaling pales in comparison to a 90% STR scaling because of it portions the stats and then multiplies them by 1.5. (With 60 scaled STR a Fuuma obtains 90 SWA from stat scaling, while an excel saber would obtain 67 merely.)

I think these weapons could use a simple touch up to catch them up, I do get they have innate damage mods themselves but they've always felt weak since GR happened, this would also help them be established with the new Excel Crash mechanic as often enough Excel Crash is not worth investing into because higher SWA achieves very similar damage, maybe even more.

A good weapon to look at for why this can be a thing is Burst Claw, which has been used a couple of times before (even mutated as a spear) and hasn't been complained about in the slightest, and its total scaling is 105% and has 50% fire ATK on hit.

I'm here to ask if Excel Line weapons can be bumped up to 90% total scaling instead of 75%, the only exception to this should be made for Excel Sniper, as it gets 25% WIL scaling from MG which makes it pretty good actually.
Last edited by Spoops on Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lolzytripd
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Re: Excel Line Issues

Post by Lolzytripd » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:10 pm

I agree 100% with spoops about excel weapons, they already go into a momentum deficit for high amounts of charge, but are not worth the damage increase,

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Re: Excel Line Issues

Post by Snake » Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:59 pm

The charges should be seen as a stand-alone feature from the weapon. I'd say a solid 85% for the Sword/Axe/Spear, and 90% for the Fist/Tome, but whatever goes, goes.

The reason of the 'favoritism' there is mainly because those three benefit from Two-Handed.
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Re: Excel Line Issues

Post by Spoops » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:50 pm

I know they benefit from Two-Hand but their hand slot unlike other 2handable weapons is almost always going to be Conversion Gloves, instead of damage amplifying ones like bloody palms or rogue's work gloves, or stat based ones like Chimeric Bands.

I believe for this reason that the weapons can exist at 90% Scaling and be fine, they're supposed to be about high burst, but they boast low power and extremely low scaling currently which makes them deal less damage overall.

They still need to pass the same checks as every other martial weapon too, Eviter/stalemate/hit checks/Crit checks etc.

We have counters to burst damage in the game via Body of Isesip, Wraithguard, Painproof, controlled CC etc.
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Fern
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Re: Excel Line Issues

Post by Fern » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:11 pm

I have seen many, many Excel builds be attempted after Great Reckoning hit and many of them were abandoned a short time afterwards for a different weapon type. I wouldn't be against increasing their scaling to 85% or 90%, though I'd say 90% is for the best.
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Re: Excel Line Issues

Post by DoctorMad » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:18 pm

Spoops wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:05 pm
I'm here to ask if Excel Line weapons can be bumped up to 90% total scaling instead of 75%, the only exception to this should be made for Excel Sniper, as it gets 25% WIL scaling from MG which makes it pretty good actually.
That's kind of a lame reason to not give it the same adjustments, form a design standpoint.

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Re: Excel Line Issues

Post by Spoops » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:54 pm

DoctorMad wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:18 pm
Spoops wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:05 pm
I'm here to ask if Excel Line weapons can be bumped up to 90% total scaling instead of 75%, the only exception to this should be made for Excel Sniper, as it gets 25% WIL scaling from MG which makes it pretty good actually.
That's kind of a lame reason to not give it the same adjustments, form a design standpoint.
Sure its lame but its to prevent it from getting too out of hand, guns generally have lower scaling overall because Arcane Gun exists currently, that could only change if Arcane Gun was changed really, but thats a discussion best saved for Guns as a whole and not this thread.

As it stands, Excel Sniper is perfectly fine where it stands right now, other single shot guns like Moonlight Mercy, Jackhammer etc, all have lower than normal scalings currently.
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Re: Excel Line Issues

Post by Lolzytripd » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:05 am

I gotta disagree spoops, unless future gunclasses include a 25% skill scaling or something it shoe horns all gun builds to get MG for base damage to be even worth it.

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Re: Excel Line Issues

Post by Spoops » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:21 am

Lolzytripd wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:05 am
I gotta disagree spoops, unless future gunclasses include a 25% skill scaling or something it shoe horns all gun builds to get MG for base damage to be even worth it.
Spoops wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:54 pm
that could only change if Arcane Gun was changed really, but thats a discussion best saved for Guns as a whole and not this thread.
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Re: Excel Line Issues

Post by Lolzytripd » Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:30 am

Spoops wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:21 am
Lolzytripd wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:05 am
I gotta disagree spoops, unless future gunclasses include a 25% skill scaling or something it shoe horns all gun builds to get MG for base damage to be even worth it.
Spoops wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:54 pm
that could only change if Arcane Gun was changed really, but thats a discussion best saved for Guns as a whole and not this thread.
I would like to say I skimmed the thread too fast, do you want my cookie?

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