[Aposemagika] The curse of tinkerbell

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Mr.SmileGod
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[Aposemagika] The curse of tinkerbell

Post by Mr.SmileGod » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:27 am

"Is that an invocation? Oh god, we're going to di-- ohh, pretty colors..."

No, but seriously. Papilions are cool as hell conceptually, but as far as racials go... It's hard to justify their lack of an entire stat. Especially one that offers the benefits that Sanctity does. Butterflies (and any variations of) did get a bit of love back when a bunch of traits were added, but it really isn't... enough. They're only melee range, but given the low cost of FP and M it's fine. Butterflies, as they are, are mostly fine.

The problem with Papilion is the wasted potential of Aposemagika, which suffers from a pretty simple issue-- it never got that good old Great Reckoning loving. It's a blast from the past, though I don't remember if it was used back then either. Now-a-days, it's just used to flex on people ICly, but it could be so much more.

20 FP, class D invocation (so 9M with ways to counter) for some pretty laughable benefits:
1 butterfly a round, on a random tile. I can get that in actually useful positions for 1M a turn, for 6 turns (the duration of Aposemagika)
6 + (6-(San/5)) additional spell power at level 60. 12 spell power maximum. It's... a boost, but not really a worthwhile one, even if it was a 3M skill.
The ability to apply your butterflies' effects when hit in melee range. So essentially you just become another butterfly, but don't die in one hit.

Now, don't get me wrong. That's a lot of benefits from one skill-- but they're all so bad that it doesn't even matter. I'd say overhaul the spell entirely. Keep it an invocation, but do something neat with it. It's an invocation from the absolute masters of illusion magic, blessed (or cursed) by the forest that eats people.

What exactly should it do, though? That's a daaamn good question. I've heard a few suggestions, most of these aren't mine. Obviously I'm not advocating for all of these at once, so just pick and choose if you like some. Or don't.

Suggestion 1: Replace the bonus spell power with an infliction chance on all enemies to apply Confusion. Duration could be something in the ballpark of 5 rounds - (San/10), if you wanted to keep the Sanctity debuff portion. It'd be pretty worthless in 1v1s, but I could see it being a real tide-turner in 4v4s and the like, just by keeping AoE users in check for a while.

Suggestion 2: Give it an effect like a scaled down version of Ashe's Kaleidoscope. A set number of random slashes across the battle field, doing damage if someone's caught. Literally just make the field into a living hell of ice, cinders, etc. Have the effects scaled to Sanctity in some way, and the damage based off of SWA. And since there's no way to aim it, it'd truly be chaotic instead of just being 'aha take damage'.

Suggestion 3, my personal favorite: Give the enemies a taste of what the Deepwoods were like. Turn the surrounding area into a beautiful landscape of pretty colors and illusionary flora, with that hint of dread that the forest is said to hold. Every turn, all enemies suffer a luck-based infliction chance based on the user's status infliction. If they fail to resist, they're hit with Fear, Hesitation and Charm level 6 (-1 per 5 of the user's scaled San). If they already have those statuses, the effect is increased, to a maximum duration of 2 turns and a maximum level of, say, 75. So with just Aposemagika itself, succeeding all checks would leave the targets with level 36 of those statuses at the end of the skill's 6 turn duration.

I can see how it might be a bit broken at first glance, but Vampires literally have a version of this for 3M. The levels are higher, but there's more to applying the effects. Obviously, though, the numbers can be tweaked. Not to mention, Aposemagika is an invocation. A 9M skill with ways to prevent it shouldn't be weaksauce.
---

Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED talk and sitting through a wall of text. If you have suggestions, feel free to leave them, yada yada.
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Re: [Aposemagika] The curse of tinkerbell

Post by Fern » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:02 pm

I think a simple albeit effective addition would be to let Aposemagika grant the Papilion the ability to roll infliction chance for Confusion on damage, just like Vampires inflict fear on damage with Lunar Lunatism. That should make the invocation pretty good and not absurdly overwhelming.

I mean, you could argue that someone is inevitably going to theorycraft a way to break the entire thing and use it super-optimally but like... whatever? That's a thing for most skills/spells in the game already. I think it'd be cool if they applied Confusion.

I think this would also fit with the whole 'be lost in a rainbow abyss' because people would actually get lost!
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Re: [Aposemagika] The curse of tinkerbell

Post by Spoops » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:54 am

I don't even think it'd be that busted even if you made it apply exactly like Vampire's fear thing, currently where in Aposemagika doesn't trigger on damage, it triggers on basic attack (hit or miss)

So AoE setups are not exactly effected as much as you'd think from that at least.

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Re: [Aposemagika] The curse of tinkerbell

Post by Mr.SmileGod » Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:24 am

Well I was thinking it'd be an immediate infliction on all enemies, not something based on being hit by a basic. At that point, it's not really going to do much of anything since most basic attackers don't do large AoEs. Infliction chance upon taking any damage from someone, however, would be fine IMO.

EDIT: Maybe even infliction chance for hitting any of your allies. Because why not.

EDIT 2: I just realized after re-reading that you probably meant on the Papilion's basics, not the enemy's. This is why I shouldn't be allowed to multitask. Either way.
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Re: [Aposemagika] The curse of tinkerbell

Post by Fern » Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:50 am

I meant on damage. Vampire's fear infliction goes off all damage, incluiding things like poison ticks or field effects.

Meaning that you only have to damage them with anything one to roll infliction for that status just like Lunar Lunatism does.

I.E:

I hurt someone with Flying Dagger or Crystal Rose with Aposemagika active.

I roll status infliction for Confusion.


This is currently a thing with Lunar Lunatism and fear infliction, so...
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Re: [Aposemagika] The curse of tinkerbell

Post by Mr.SmileGod » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:02 am

That'd be cool, yeah. I still think there should be more than just Confusion, though, just for the effect. Lunar is a 3m skill, iirc. This is a full-on invocation, and supposed to be someone being 'lost in the rainbow abyss'. That being said, confusion can be a pretty effective thing in the right circumstances, but at the same time it can be kinda easy to avoid. I just don't really know what else you could add that would fit the idea and not be stupidly broken.
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Re: [Aposemagika] The curse of tinkerbell

Post by PantherPrincess » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:31 am

Considering it's an invocation I think it deserves even more than just Confusion on hit seeing as comparing how easy it is to pull off Lunar Lunatism. That said I'd make it include status like Clumsy, Slow, and Stun (obv procs lower than the others). I'd also make it increase the levels of a status by a nice amount as well.
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Re: [Aposemagika] The curse of tinkerbell

Post by Mr.SmileGod » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:39 am

Probably not stun, because that's... pretty strong. Clumsy is very specific on who it would realistically affect iirc (then again, I don't remember what clumsy does aside from, what was it? Chance to knockdown on move?), and slow might be okay. I'm not really sure, honestly.
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Re: [Aposemagika] The curse of tinkerbell

Post by PantherPrincess » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:44 am

Stun has gotten toned done a lot. The damage you take while stunned is lower and you become immune to the status. There's also certain items that help with stun too which not to mention it's a rarer status. I also included that it had a lower proc chance than the rest. I don't really see how racially it's that challenging when there are other races that can compete with far worse ammunition.
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Re: [Aposemagika] The curse of tinkerbell

Post by Snake » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:31 am

No heehoo stuns, Kunai.

Anyway, I'd like to see Confusion embedded to Papilion's butterflies or both together with Aposemagika itself. Honestly, there is no other status effect that screams 'Papilion Illusions' than Confusion.
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