Claret Me In, CLARET ME IIIIIIIIN [Ghost balance shifting]

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GSM
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Claret Me In, CLARET ME IIIIIIIIN [Ghost balance shifting]

Post by GSM » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:49 pm

So, it's kind of a surprise to nobody right now that for the past uhhh, since Ghost got reworked, however long ago that was, it's been dominating the scene in both PvE and PvP. It's easy to access and easy to abuse, and with all of its new tools it can't really do anything badly.

ᶦᵗ'ˢ ᵏᶦⁿᵈ ᵒᶠ ⁿᵘᵗˢ

However, the main issue I'm seeing with the hits to Ghost is that it isn't really tackling the main power budget and balance of the class that is readily apparent to most of the people that fight one.

Claret Call is kind of the big reason why Ghost is so insane.

ᶠᵘᶜᵏᶦⁿ' ᶜʳᵃᶻʸ ˢʰᶦᵗ ᵈᵘᵈᵉ

So, I want to hit Ghost where it really matters, and give it back some of its core identity that it had pre-rework. Y'know, a terrifying attrition fighter, and not a god damn blood mage that has a specter somewhere in a corner BDSM-ing their pain away, and only needs a rock to activate properly.



Rising Game nerf (+1 stat per 10% HP > +1 stat per 15% HP) is reverted.
To clarify, Rising Game was never the issue when Ghost started bullying people on the playground. The change from 10% to 15% did quite literally nothing unless you specifically planned for Ghost to be part of your core build, which nobody does since it's so situational it hurts.
Claret Call, and anything that scales with Rising Game, increases stacks off every 2 stacks of Rising Game, and is changed to have a Max LVL of Ghost -5 (from Max LVL of Ghost +5), meaning non-Destiny caps at LVL30 Claret, and Destiny caps at LVL45.
THIS was the major issue. Claret Call stacked way too quickly relatively quickly in fights, and Claret giving you a major free damage buff was quite simply oppressive, not to mention this'll hit everything that scales off of Claret harder. Cut Down and the ever dangerous succ Rebound are notable hits here. And with the stacking of Claret shearing down, let's take a look at the final proposed change I'm making...
Blood Spike and Scarlet Twister get FP cost up (Blood Spike up by 6, from 19 > 25; Scarlet Twister up by 6, from 24 > 30) and elemental scalings down by 10% each (Blood Spike from 100% Ice/Water > 90% Ice/Water, Scarlet Twister from 90% Wind/Water > 80% Wind/Water), potentially gaining a fixed maximum range/maximum pull.
The new blood magic spells are so problematic in their core concept of them being quite literally better than some Evoker tier spells that it's absolutely insane. The damage these things shit out are absolutely nuts, and it feels like it hits HP when that feels like a non issue to Ghosts. I'd very much prefer them getting an absolute range, because an AoE Claret Call applying nuke spell that can traverse half the map OR pull someone without much hassle is the exact reason why I refuse to use these in practical play, ever. It feels cheap, man.
Any feedback or added opinions would be welcome. I'm fully prepared for this to not be touched or talked about by Dev, but this is how I feel Ghost should have been altered. Trust me, I LOVE Ghost as a class- hell, it's my favorite class, ever since I started playing. But I can't bring myself to play it seriously when it's so overbearingly strong and everyone knows it. Everything BUT the issue has been hit on the head, and Rising Game getting the shaft really hurt me, since that's not at all how it could work.

ᵗʰᵃⁿᵏ ʸᵒᵘ ᶠᵒʳ ᶜᵒᵐᶦⁿᵍ ᵗᵒ ᵐʸ ᵗᵉᵈ ᵗᵃˡᵏ
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Ham
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Re: Claret Me In, CLARET ME IIIIIIIIN [Ghost balance shifting]

Post by Ham » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:05 pm

I always wanted Blood Magic moves to be taken alittle more seriously, they're not really easy to brush off as a 'yea i used my red water spell technique thing', but more akin to a desperation attack or a very desperate last resort that has consequences like the Kikoho/Tri Beam from DBZ and overall it often feels so disjointed.

Don't get me started on new Wraithguard, Rebound can be a mild headache with how often it's easily abused, Reaper Scythe is awkward at first which may seem as a disadvantage but it's really easy to bypass said awkward range and it begins being easy damage you can shit out that has pretty much no way of protecting against and Claret Call breaks people's guards when combo'd with it.

But I also do agree Claret is also a huge issue.

Bring Back Old Ghost, Ham out
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Re: Claret Me In, CLARET ME IIIIIIIIN [Ghost balance shifting]

Post by Spoops » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:44 pm

I can just state that the absolute most abuse-able cases of Ghost are Blood spike's damage, claret call's damage amplification, and rebound's healing currently.

I don't really have the energy to argue if these need to change or not, but this is what I've observed so far.

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Re: Claret Me In, CLARET ME IIIIIIIIN [Ghost balance shifting]

Post by FaeLenx » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:16 pm

I'm always more in favor of buffing other classes over nerfing specific ones.

Classes like Verglas and Arbalest don't see little use and creativity because Ghost is good. They see little use because the classes themselves are so specialized that they offer very little compared to classes like Ghost, Monk, or DH.

Don't break down what already exists, just build more up.

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Re: Claret Me In, CLARET ME IIIIIIIIN [Ghost balance shifting]

Post by Akame » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:23 pm

I've always felt blood spells should have low scalings, then would become far stronger when the user is at lower HP. This would add to the risk factor -- making the spells rely more heavily on Rising Game than to just be strong for the sake of being strong.

Moreso, I wish Fitting Form played a bigger role with Claret Call. If people felt more required to use lower weighted weapons for the class to work more efficiently, I think the class wouldn't be so overbearing at least in terms of damage. I think Bloody Palms plays a role in the Claret Call being so easy to cap, but I don't have any solutions on how it would change. So many builds seem to just get away with two-handing 20 weighed weapons with dragon/fireblood remains without any real consequences.

Just my two cents.

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Re: Claret Me In, CLARET ME IIIIIIIIN [Ghost balance shifting]

Post by K Peculier » Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:49 pm

They told me I could be a high risk, high reward berserker fighter. So I became everything instead.

As it stands now, nerfing the stats really isin't going to 'balance' this as the main form of damage and sustain people have and will continue to cheese with has always been the ludicrously easy way to stack claret calls in addition to rebound healing far too much due to claret calls being easy to stack on enemies in the first place.

Even with the gravestone change not making them completely immune, its still more optimal to run to the very far corner of a map and put your wraithguard there which is ironically cowardly for a 'Berserker' type character.
"I feel the weight of my sins crawling on my back."

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Re: Claret Me In, CLARET ME IIIIIIIIN [Ghost balance shifting]

Post by Hanzo » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:30 pm

i think that claret call the blood spells and wraithguard should be completely removed

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