More Crazy Dungeons

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Snake
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More Crazy Dungeons

Post by Snake » Sun May 21, 2017 10:24 am

Can Crazy Dungeons be more frequent from LV45+?

They're the only ones that are worth diving in, the amount of enemies make each fight be a bit more fun and challenging, especially when you run out of things to do in SL2, or when Black Beasts are not active.

Alternatively, can the Static Dungeons be all Crazy, or have an insane number of mobs to kill?
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Chaos
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Re: More Crazy Dungeons

Post by Chaos » Sun May 21, 2017 1:17 pm

Making Dungeons more 'challenging' should not mean 'resorting to throwing massive amounts of enemies at everyone'.

If high-level dungeon encounters are that easy, we should look at making high-level enemies better.

If you're looking for quicker and easier levels, you have the Badlands Arena for that.

P.S. Chaotic Keys exist, if you're hungering for some modified dungeons.
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Re: More Crazy Dungeons

Post by Snake » Sun May 21, 2017 1:45 pm

One high offender to the modified dungeons in Chaotic Keys are them being more than often, Stylish.

Stylish makes every fight rather mentally exhausting instead of fun, and nothing that happens in it reflects to what your character is really capable of. (aka the halved damage, halved FP costs, halved healing, 1M per technique), it just cripples the time needed to finish it, doubling or tripling it depending on how much players are in your party, and how many enemies are attacking.

Another alternative to make things more fun, yes, would be remove 'Stylish' from Chaotic Key's dungeon generating. I do agree so far that this might also be another way to solve the fun problem. It's a donation item, right? It should only spawn what's worthy in a player's eyes.
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Re: More Crazy Dungeons

Post by Sawrock » Sun May 21, 2017 4:21 pm

I think that Chaotic Keys should be able to have the level of the dungeon, as well as the modifiers, be chooseable.
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Re: More Crazy Dungeons

Post by Suspicious » Sun May 21, 2017 10:03 pm

As someone who primarily ends up doing non-crazy dungeons and can't handle Crazy dungeons, I'm perfectly fine with leaving things as they are. Just because you can AOE down an entire dungeon effortlessly doesn't mean everyone can, or should be expected to.

I'm with Chaos on this: make enemies smarter, or have more challenging mechanics, not just attack in larger numbers.

Maybe add 'Warped' Dungeons, where enemies have twice the momentum you do?

A part of me also would like to see, as kind of a stretch goal, a dungeon where players can provide the encounter. Having players in control of monsters for a set amount of xp every day, for instance. If they damage opponents/knock enemies out/defeat parties, they receive bonuses to the xp they earn for participating? I've always thought the only thing limiting a lot of monsters in dungeons is that they were controlled by rudimentary AI (Wings of Fire trying to get into melee, Forgeries not trying to move around enemies in order to force them through their fire path, Spectres not spamming Styx Shout from beyond melee range, etc). Honestly, the most advanced AI I've seen is from Mad Vines, who actively try to keep distance from you, and Gorgons, who try to line up to roll at you repeatedly.

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Re: More Crazy Dungeons

Post by Nanovelich » Mon May 22, 2017 1:19 am

There's a lot going on here, so I thought I'd throw in.
Chaos wrote:Making Dungeons more 'challenging' should not mean 'resorting to throwing massive amounts of enemies at everyone'.
I agree with this. My thoughts on this reminds me of how in SL1, at least when I last played it which was years before it shut down, Spatial dungeons were something you only touched at a very high level. As SL2 is, all types of dungeons are recycled from level 1 to level 60. It would be nice if there were a dungeon which was specifically endgame-targeted, with enemies that were not simply higher level versions of enemies you could see anywhere else but also much more difficult to challenge, through whatever necessary combination of skills, AI-improvements, etc.
And I understand we'd need assets for such a thing.
The closest thing we have right now is the Raid, I believe, but that's what it is.
Suspicious wrote:As someone who primarily ends up doing non-crazy dungeons and can't handle Crazy dungeons, I'm perfectly fine with leaving things as they are. Just because you can AOE down an entire dungeon effortlessly doesn't mean everyone can, or should be expected to.
Suspicious also has a point. The near-60 stretch is the hardest part of grinding back up to 60, and it's a real thorn in my side when I can only find dungeons that are either Crazy or have some other modifier(s) I don't want to deal with most of the time. (Looking at you, Spacey and Stylish.) Of course, this is because I mostly go solo, but also, Full Clear is a big incentive for leveling experience. That's not so kind on you when the dungeon has 20 something floors due to being so high level AND has Crazy on it, even for some full parties.
Snake wrote:Alternatively, can the Static Dungeons be all Crazy, or have an insane number of mobs to kill?
This would be a nice stand-in for now though. Probably not all of them though.
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Re: More Crazy Dungeons

Post by Raigen.Convict » Mon May 22, 2017 4:07 pm

I suggest we simply create a dungeon type that only spawns at 50+ with enemies that are naturally difficult to beat but offer greater rewards, more opportunities for legendary items and such. As an endgame option for those Destiny Hexers and Kenseis with enough crit to deal 300+ per swing and the Lantern-bearers with like 80+ elemental attack.
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Re: More Crazy Dungeons

Post by Nanovelich » Mon May 22, 2017 10:08 pm

Raigen.Convict wrote:I suggest we simply create a dungeon type that only spawns at 50+ with enemies that are naturally difficult to beat but offer greater rewards, more opportunities for legendary items and such. As an endgame option for those Destiny Hexers and Kenseis with enough crit to deal 300+ per swing and the Lantern-bearers with like 80+ elemental attack.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I was suggesting.


Side note. This being something I want to counter before anyone else suggests it: No, a boss trial dungeon (in which bosses were placed into the map in groups like normal enemies, not one per battle) wouldn't be a good idea. That would just devalue boss drops and ruin the point of bosses in 65+ Statics, I believe.
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Re: More Crazy Dungeons

Post by Snake » Tue May 23, 2017 12:03 am

What Nanodesu said. Bosses are a bit too much... Maybe a whole bunch of Minibosses to compensate? An army of those superpowered mobs are possible and it won't be any giant issues to the game. (We already have those from GM's events, why not by default?)
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