Monoclassing support

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Senna
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Monoclassing support

Post by Senna » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:12 am

Not sure if I should add this in balance or not but I am a little tired ANNND I don't wanna forget this thought so.

Monoclassing has been a meme for a while now; it isn't taken seriously due to the fact people can easily use another class and get more and better bonuses. Some turn to gimmicks for sort of success whenever they do so but that can only last for so long. So, this suggestion is to make mono class just as viable as using two different classes.
Firstly - Technique cost reduction when mono-classing, ranging from 25% to 50% less.

Second - Techniques within the class (Not the passive and innate), scaling (Damage or not) should be one rank higher than normal as long as points were invested into it. (Still allow spirit bonus.)
Reasoning: Focusing mainly on one class instead of two, Its only fair for the player to have a better mastery over the techniques, from improving the overall effectiveness and efficiency. In game sense, it'll set the difference between the two, giving the players a reason to truly think about mono one class or using two classes instead.
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Re: Monoclassing support

Post by HexGirlBestGirl » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:44 am

Senna wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:12 am
Not sure if I should add this in balance or not but I am a little tired ANNND I don't wanna forget this thought so.

Monoclassing has been a meme for a while now; it isn't taken seriously due to the fact people can easily use another class and get more and better bonuses. Some turn to gimmicks for sort of success whenever they do so but that can only last for so long. So, this suggestion is to make mono class just as viable as using two different classes.
Firstly - Technique cost reduction when mono-classing, ranging from 25% to 50% less.

Second - Techniques within the class (Not the passive and innate), scaling (Damage or not) should be one rank higher than normal as long as points were invested into it. (Still allow spirit bonus.)
Reasoning: Focusing mainly on one class instead of two, Its only fair for the player to have a better mastery over the techniques, from improving the overall effectiveness and efficiency. In game sense, it'll set the difference between the two, giving the players a reason to truly think about mono one class or using two classes instead.
Alright. Let me put my textualized or whatever vocals on this screen here. I'd first like to point out that this is a pretty nice idea in concept and all that. Monoclass for more benefit. Questionable in regards of allowing spirit bonuses so you can go +2 points above the typical norm instead of +1 in regards of skills. Although that's a balance catastrophe for later.

I'd primarily like to bring attention to this here. This right here.

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This is the primary instance of a skill, even if it's only an innate that promotes or benefits more than just getting four extra skill pool or more of a class bonus. Typically from gear that's questionable to be using compared to many of the other better choices out there. I'd personally prefer to see more stuff to this degree instead but in the vein of how main class skills are. Where you just don't get a skill if not main-classed or get a certain bonus effect if not main classed. Perhaps the same should exist for monoclassing as well?

Certain skills that get enhanced beyond just +1 effective rank level and some less FP. Otherwise, it'll only be a statistically better version of something else already out there. Granted, even Spirituality is the same thing. As it'll be now, I think it'd feel like something along the lines of:

"I can Wretched Oil too but...BETTER AND FOR LESS ENERGY!" as opposed to something like "Heh. Only a true master of the dark arts could do this..." Imagine if being a Mono Tactician made max level Assault Order also give Half the LV to Crit as well due to how well you're able to inspire or order around your soldiers? What if a Monoboxer could have an alternate form of Grandupper that's a toggle where you punch the enemy up and then just drive them into the ground instantly for more damage and partially reduced AoE damage to those around them at the cost of a KD instead of removing them for an entire turn. (Which is debatably stronger most of the time. Probably.) Just a few examples of what i'm rambling on about.

On a mechanical basis, it'll be better. It most definitely will. But it won't feel that difference in the base essence and that's pretty much my one and only issue. Which is more of a nitpick than anything. By all means, any form of weight added into the process of deciding if it's worth to Monoclass beyond doing so is more than welcome to me.

Is this where I say like, +1 or something? (Edit: This should also probably be moved or reposted in Balance Fu. It is a balance related suggestion after all.)

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Re: Monoclassing support

Post by Raigen.Convict » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:01 pm

Welp time to open that ol' wallet and shill out that dough for dev to add this in.
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Re: Monoclassing support

Post by Neus » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:42 pm

I'm not opposed to more monoclass bonuses but I don't think just a blanket cheaper + additional rank is the way to go. It makes balancing these skills a lot harder to account for white spirits already.

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Re: Monoclassing support

Post by Spoops » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:49 pm

The way to go might be bonuses via the Monk Method, where in Spirituality currently doubles when mono-classed, though I think that part is kinda weak currently, there could be some cool bonuses like...Arbalests having -1 duration on being locked out of cannon skills, Kensei's 'katana master' being doubled or tripled, Black Knights always having the black wind active. Etc.

I think a good example with kenseis having like, tripled katana master, that'd set their Sakki/Touki/Kenki/Yomidori all at lvl 30, making them feel like masters of their art.

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Re: Monoclassing support

Post by Senna » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:09 am

What Spo suggest works too really, amp the given passives for the classes if they're mono. Enough so it's worth. The only real challenge is to find the list from each class that should receive this. (And yes, I do believe some like Monk passive ki, Void assassin passive void and so on (The others) should give x3/x2.5 instead of x2/x1 and some class with active supportive main focus ability/passive like Black wind should get the Eternal Flame treatment)
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Re: Monoclassing support

Post by Lolzytripd » Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:20 am

Another option for monoclassing could also be Certain buffs are applied for free at round start.

Mono classed evoker could get a round start Chargemind, a Ghost could get a round start wraithguard, ect.

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Re: Monoclassing support

Post by Kameron8 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:07 am

I stand by the idea that a small selection of mono-class specific capstone skills/spells/abilities should be available for people who chose that route. Abilities that have a much higher-than-average level of power, and could fundamentally change the way the class played. Limiting the number of capstone skills a character could learn for their single class would also add diversity between different one-class setups.

Unfortunately, I also acknowledge that this would be a tremendous amount of work to implement and balance.

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Re: Monoclassing support

Post by Senna » Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:56 am

Okay, I have some suggestions we could use to help mono. Since giving them flat status is too much, how about giving them a bonus effect if mono? Something to set them different from the non-mono without changing around damage too much. Originally, I'm not sure if this will be too much to code but I do hope the others can suggest more/balance some suggestion so if Dev likes it, he can pick some of them.

So I thought about: What if some of the mono skills work like Kensei Combo? Whereas they can do some thing to give them the effect bonus for a certain skills?

Some suggestions:
Archer/Archer

Warning Shot - This requires Marked Target - Mono bonus: If the target is marked and a warning shot was used, it also inflicts hesitate (25lvl?) along with fears for X number of turns. This will consume the mark.
Cripple Arm & Cripple Leg - This requires Marked Target - Mono bonus: If the target is marked, instead of the damage bonus against the marked target, the user will gain an increase hit chance of these attacks. This will consume the mark.


Arbalest/Arbalest - (This one is a little hard)

Reload Accel - If this was used, it will give a [Insert name here] status for two rounds.
Deadly Aim & Mighty Wall - If any of these two were used while the [Insert name here] status was active, it will refund 2 (Maybe 3) momentum and consume the status.
Offensive skills with hit penalty within this class - They would consume this [Insert name here] status and negate the hit penalty, as long as the battle weight isn't over their Max BW.


Magic Gunner/Magic Gunner - (Quite hard as well)

Thunder Drive - If Recklessness is active, Thunder Drive triggered Overcharge cooldown will have one less duration but will negate standoff bonus for two rounds.
Covering Fire EFFECTS - If the target is affected by Covering fire, each shell gets a small add on bonus against that target. (Via charge or overcharge)
[*]Blaze Shell & Celsius Shell- Bypass absorb or immunity.
[*]Bright Shell - Inflict the target with Glowing.
[*]Magnet Shell - Pulls the target closer per shot.
[*]Chain Shell - Lightning damage can crit.
[*]Vamp Shell - Healing/Recovery bypasses interference (Only half as effective) and vampire healing reduction.
[*]Null Shell - Reduce the duration of other positive status, it hasn't removed.
[*]Sonic Shell - May inflict fear.
[*]Interference Shell - Inflicts a new status call Sealed; Pretty much prevents the victim from summoning youkai for x number of turns.
[*]Lucky Shell - Increase the chance of luck base ability/status inflicts.


Ranger/Ranger (Not much to work with here)

Expert's Aim - Remains active even after moving.
Gentle Garden - If Annorum is active, it has a chance to reduce a (Maybe two) random negate status duration and increase a (Maybe two) random positive status duration.
Pressure Fletch - As a mono, with Annorum active, it can be used on themselves or an ally to remove 1-3 negative status effects but take 25%-50% of the original damage.


Martial Artist/Martial Artist

Shukuchi - It will now give the following skill extra bonuses.
[*]Peddling Wheel - Targets within three tiles (circle) will be pulled closer before the attack goes off.
[*]Heaven Kick - If Phoenix Talon is also active during this, the damage will change to light physical instead.


Monk/Monk

Power Up - If mono, convert the extra-ki from power up into bonus FP recovery.
Setting Sun - if Ki Awoken is active, and the user has over 20 ki before the sun sets, whenever the users decide to 'drop the sun' or if the sun 'drops itself' on targets within the zone, this attack will inflict guards break and ignore evasion. (Only works if it's the Max size setting sun)
Dense Thunder - If Ki Awoken and Shukuchi is active if the user is able to teleport to the empty space successfully and inflict the sound damage, they have a chance to knock the target down.
Sky Chariot - If the user has 25+ Ki and Shukuchi active, it increases the range of this attack.


Verglas/Verglas

Winter's Bite - If the effect for this skill is still active and the user uses it again; unlike draining the heat, they'll 'absorb' it instead, it will now drain FP until the winter-bite duration ends (But will have a 1-round CD).
Permafrost - If mono, it also affects ice sheets.
Icicle Spear - if the target is affected by Winter's Bite, it increases the chance of frostbite inflict, as well as the frostbite power by +10.


Boxer/Boxer (A bit hard because Boxer is hard to balance as if)

Orkam Drehen - Increase the pull force by 2 if Sturm is over 4.
Fighting Pace - Multiply the bonus FP base on how many extra momentum the user ends their turn with. (So like 6 = x2)
Schwarz Sturm - Increase the max Sturm level by 2.


Curate/Curate (Not much to work with here)

Aegis - Double the range of the protection this passive allows if Pacifist Boon or Pray is active.
Pacifist Boon - If active, increases FP recovery by +3, +3 if pray is active.
Pray - Increase the chance of a pray bonus if Pacifist Boon is active.
Kel - If Pray is active on the user, this ability now has a chance to inflict silence and decrease a positive status (if only if they manage to silence the target).


Lantern Bearer/Lantern Bearer

Gentle Embers - The effects duration from gentle ember is increased by 1 as long as they're within range without the farlight bonus.
Some technique has a bonus effect while mono and with Eternal Flame active
[*]Salamander - Decrease the duration for ice tiles and frozen within the range.
[*]Fenrir - Can apply frozen to object plants and apply a bit more effective slow against plant race.
[*]Typhur - If the target is already knockdown down, it ignores knockback immunity.
[*]Golem - If Magnetized, it pulls them within one range of the user.
[*]Altera - Can ignore beyond sight and goldeneye (A reach) as long as they're within range without the farlight bonus.
[*]Quetal - With GENTLE Ember, it can also excel charge.


Priest/Priest

Malmelo - If the Priest's allies are also located on their Sanctuary, there is a faith% chance it revives then heal them.
Mercalan Mist - While this is active and the user or their allies are on their Sanctuary, it increases their status resistance scaling from the user's faith.


Rogue/Rogue

Wind Dancer (Wind vet)- Base on the active wind, if the wind was used and obtained full bonus, the counterpart is able to gain the full bonus as well.
North of the map grants Full for Northern and if Northern was used then during that turn, southern, if used will also gain full bonus, Etc.
Stealth Traps - Conceals the name of the trap while being placed.
Dagger Dance - The secondary strike ignores reduction.


Engineer/Engineer

Upgrade (Flamethrower) - If used on themselves, it increases the width by a half diamond-sharp and creates fire tiles equal to Flamethrower Rank * 5.
Upgrade (Launcher) - If used on themselves, it will immediately go off after landing next to the target.
Upgrade (Jetpack) - If used on themselves, it increases the range of the jetpack by X number as well as granting them airborne status.
Upgrade (Electro Shield) - If used on themselves, it will passively provide excel charge a turn.


Void Assassin/Void Assassin

Vanishing Strike - Can remove one-time use evasion bonuses. If sneak is active, ignores evasion.
Cutthroat - if they have Sneak active, this can ignore all status evasion boost. (Like Southern, Fight as one and so on)
Advancing Flow - If the user already has max void energy and has sneak status active. If the target is within 1 to 2 tile of the attack's range and this evasion skill triggers, it can teleport the user behind the attacker.


Spellthief/Spellthief (This one is a bit hard as well lol)

Invisible Weapon - If mono, it negates blind fighter weakness.
Create Shade - If the user wasn't revealed until their next turn begins and the enemy isn't facing the user's location, they gain sneak status.
Bluff - This also applies if the user is also casting a different spell and if they have more than two Invocation spells in their skill pool. (Pretty much if they're casting something like Death Knighting, they'll see the chant for Overload instead. Something like a true trickier)
Energy Laundering - If the level is over 20 and used, it can also reduce the cooldown of stolen spells by one.


Duelist/Duelist (This is very strong by itself so it doesn't need any major buff)

Poise - if mono, double the damage threshold if the user is also using Vent and if one on one is active.
Attrait - Gains the full bonus of Poise (The bonus gained from evading) if Vent is active.


Ghost/Ghost (This is probably one of the strongest class so, not a lotta bonus for this)

Gravestone - Takes two basic attacks to break against targets that has Claret call on them.
Red Rain - Increase creep speed by one towards targets that already has Claret Call on them.
Death Gaze - May also inflict hesitate equal to the previous Claret Call level.


Kensei/Kensei

Katana Master - Increase the katana bonus by 2-3 or just Double.
Sheath Sword - If Sacred Art is active with Sheath Sword and any of the Absolutes, if the enemy basic attack the user from a different angle, within the one tile range, the user will turn and trigger Sheath Sword's Quickdraw effect, however, there will be a 30% hit penalty.
Absolute Pace - May also trigger from evasion. The Kensei gains extra movement range towards the marked target.


Soldier/Soldier - (Couldn't think of anything for this other than the given)

Protect - Double the damage reduction from it.
Tenacity - Grants extra status resistance against crowd control that affects movements.


Black Knight/Black Knight - (This class doesn't have much to work with)

Black Wind -If mono, this is active from taking all damage types instead of just physical.
Sudden Death - If mono, this will use Def scaling instead of will as long as Black Wind is active.


Tactician/Tactician

Performance Rating - If you or your ally (Using your order/Formation) takes down an enemy, this will also increase the user's rating.


Demon Hunter/Demon Hunter

Reaver Stance - Mono bonus = Rank * 20% chance to inflict guard breaker while attacking with this stance active. This chance is lowered each failed attempt until the next round.
Matador Stance - Mono bonus = Rank * 20% chance at the beginning of each round to decrease the duration of negative status that affects defense/resistance reduction.
Cobra Stance - Mono bonus = Rank * 20% chance for the user to turn and face the faster enemy's location at the start of each round.
Desperado Stance - Mono bonus = Rank * 20% chance to gain Rank * 5 hit bonus against targets while in this stance at the start of a round. This hit bonus doubles if the target is airborne. (Gun only)


Mage/Mage

Whispering Cant - Though this was recently nerfed, how about we move it to mono instead? When mono, it affects all mage spells instead of just offensive. Just none offensive ability cost +15% more.


Evoker/Evoker

Arcane Tattoo
- If the criteria is reached, it also grants the user 20%-40% bonus status resistance.
Pure Power - Double the effect per a slot if mono but this is half effective with instant cast spells in (Only Evoker.)
Ephemeral Insight - Duration doubles but also increase the drawback.


Hexer/Hexer

Curses - If payback was active beforehand, if the curse is transferred to the victim via Silent Spirit, the curse(s) duration will increase by +1 -+2.
Payback - If the victim already has a cursed/hex, payback can be reused.
Silent Spirit - If the hexer is mono and they're using cursed/doom item, if they used silent spirit successfully IF they have spirits, they will gain a status effect called Spiritual Vocal that last for two rounds. This allows the user to cast their invocation spells with only 3 momentum instead of 6, however, this will use the status effect and consume it. The will also gain an ability that release the spirit. Doing so will consumes Spiritual Vocal, remove up to three negative status (That ain't hex/curse) and grant immunity to them for two rounds.


Summoner/Summoner

Nothing here other than just increase the bonus stats an Affinity gets.


Grand Summoner/Grand Summoner

Encourage - If mono, it affects all the youkai within a 2-3 range.
Soul Chains - Seals health regeneration as well.


Bonder/Bonder

Fight As One - The bonus doubles even if they're using three bonded youkai.
Two Souls Beyond - The active loses its momentum cost as long as it's your bonded youkai.

HolyChrist this took longer than I thought to type up. Some of these on the list, I had to wing it. Some I didn't know how to improve without a balancing problem. Though some are number changes, I kinda tried my best to avoid stuff that's just 'I increase rank'. I do hope the other players can change, come up with better ideas and so on for Dev to pick and choose what he likes, if he likes them or if we need to think of something else.

Though some of these are different, I always thought if someone completely monos, they should be better at the class than anyone else. They should always have a way to adjust/answer for the class's weakness. Though I can go through and explain why for each, I'll wait until what the other posters and Dev think about them.
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