Cannon Punch(2.21) Topic is solved

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Maksimum_Fire
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Cannon Punch(2.21)

Post by Maksimum_Fire » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:51 pm

Raid cannon replaces bare fists in most situations for a raid mech that takes the trait. It can be used as a gun for gun skills, and carries gun properties of innate armor piercing, and is affected by things like Arcane Gun which give it bonus will scaling. It functions in all necessary ways for the magic gunner class.

Currently, to use it for these functions, you have to have no other weapons equipped but it. It performs decently, but not particularly well as a gun, which is probably an okay spot for it? But the inability to equip a sub weapon is a little troubling when trying to figure out how to play a raid mech, especially since lead storm gates for weapon subtype and not weapon type.

However, the effects of what is commonly believed as a bug and hence avoided by the majority of the community cause raid cannon to also function perfectly fine for fist skills. You can use Raid Cannon's swa for heaven kick, geldoren, peddling wheel, all the way up to other skills like Kadouha.(charged shot!?) Honestly, it's kinda cool, but digressing from that.

Raid Cannon also takes benefit from MA bonuses to fist weapons and to bare fists, meaning MA passives give it +35 hit, +15 power, and +15 crit. This bonus is what makes it viable of sorts, since now, assuming you run only MA- you have a 100% skill scaling fist with 35 base power, 135 hit, and 15 crit.

This goes a bit further than that. Since it replaces bare fists, you can get an interesting phenomenon to reproduce. If you use MMA with this setup, raid cannon will function for your bare fist skills- as long as they're autohit skills. Autohit skills and only autohit skills will use Raid Cannon's SWA. Geldoren will, curiously, use bare fists, even if everything else is using Raid Cannon.

Raid Cannon also has a description implying it has an innate rampaging effect. It most certainly does not, and it functions as a weapon with no enchantment for the purposes of Purity Edge from Curate.

This is a comprehensive listing of raid cannon's functions and the features associated with it, as well as easy to follow instructions to reproduce them. As a repeat- to use raid cannon for any gun or fist skill, use no other weapons but it. You may have a shield or a glove in your off hand. To use raid cannon for any martial artist autohit(not geldoren), equip Mixed Martial Arts, your weapon of choice in your main hand, and your glove of choice in your off hand.


As an afterthought, I want to offer my personal opinion that raid cannon functioning as a fist weapon makes for some very nice flavor and an interesting way to build a character. I think an inspection might be best made into whether it's a good idea to allow its continued use in MMA, but I've done the math for a wide variety of builds involving it and haven't found anything especially absurd.

Thank you for your work on the game, as always.

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Spoops
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Re: Cannon Punch(2.21)

Post by Spoops » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:55 pm

Raid cannon itself functioning as a fist for some odd reason or another has never really been all that broken, its been a topic of debate for over a year now on its usage due to it being clearly a bug, I just wish that its actual functionality was switched to being a Fist/Gun instead, because being able to use it as such would be incredibly fun.

However I will confirm one thing, fist passives and effects do NOT apply to the gun's basic attacks, it does not gain any bonuses from Bare fist innates in MA, it does not gain serpent strikes, it doesn't get trained fist's hit bonus.

that said I have put up a thread a while ago on the details of this bug, feel free to reference it for any missing details:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6692
Last edited by Spoops on Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cannon Punch(2.21)

Post by Fern » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:02 pm

Raid Cannon should keep its current special aspects. It's the only thing making the trait worth considering at all, not to mention that if it got changed to not work the way it does anymore, it would leave Agile Accel as the only Mechanation trait that can be useful.

Removing these strange albeit funny interactions would essentially terminate a good chunk of build options, which is unhealthy for the game IMO.

Unless it got changed to officially be a Fist/Gun, then that'd be pretty cool.
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Re: Cannon Punch(2.21)

Post by Neus » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:44 pm

Raid Cannon replaces instances of your unarmed weapon with the Raid Cannon weapon, and the way skills that require Fists function in a special way; they will be treated as usable if you have a Fist weapon equip or no weapon equipped (or satisfy MMA's conditions). When you use these skills, it will use your unarmed weapon; in this case, Raid Cannon replaces it. That is not a bug, just a nuance of how the trait works.

However, the Rampaging effect was not applying on hit; this has been corrected.

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