On the subject of Roleplay[TM]

A place to discuss the game in a general fashion that doesn't fit the rest of the forums.
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pizzatime
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On the subject of Roleplay[TM]

Post by pizzatime » Sat May 18, 2019 1:24 am

whats up gamers,

my name is steven callahon, and i felt it was important to talk about the subject of roleplay, IC, and other earthly considerations that may or may not extend into referring to your character as a build type or obnoxiously and or unironically using ingame titles (hitting hard on this doomwall thing, as you'll come to find) as an IC for your character.

BY NO MEANS AM I TARGETTING, WITCHHUNTING, OR SLANDERING ANYONE WITH THIS POST, AND KINDLY ASK SUCH CONSIDERATIONS EXTEND TO EVERYONE ELSE.

im not any authority to dictate proper rp or improper rp, but for the past month or so ive noticed a trend of players referring to themselves by build names or other strenously tight titles (shes a ghost, bro!) or flatout mechanics (hes a eviter, bro). while i cant wave a wand and demand everyone drop what they're doing and change their IC, it is important to understand and differentiate the two key aspects to a roleplay setting;

the in-character, in universe aspect
and the
out of character, out of universe aspect.

at this point you might ask yourself, "but steven, its obviously a use of in-universe lore concepts and theyre phrases that exist, so obviously it CANT be that bad"
in one perfect world, you might be right -- but the blatant use of these words -- and or job titles -- is thrown around so loosely that it feels more like a common staple (an obnoxious one at that) than the reputation theyre supposed to represent. in ye olden times, you didnt call duke lastname "the duke" to his face, you referred to his role in a status befitting of it's reputation, 'your humble grace befits you, ser lastname, duke of randomshire, greatest of all tapdancers in the land.' jobs, easy to obtain mechanically, hold a much greater significance ICly due to the feats/skills that are common to their profession (just because focus allows you to stomp with the force of a contained earthquake doesnt make it any less impressive, you know), but are met with such flatfaced and almost expressionless praise more akin to trading pokemon cards;
whoa bro are you using boardshaker? i didnt know you were a Chauturan Black Knight, dudebroski
obviously you can see where some dedicated rpers would knit their brows and wonder what in fresh hell these vocaloid mannequins are doing out of their box, but the problem itself isnt contained to simple player dissatisfaction -- it involves the rp mandate in the server. it's hard to consider such flat responses or bland build jockey talk being considered even remotely realistic human behavior. unless, you know, you live in the dimensions where humans speak like bastardized romulans or smth (star trekkies, please spare me, i only watched some of the movies and the run with patrick stewart)

so a real genuine question is how people can begrudgingly type - in an rp mandate - such blandless character communication and talk in a manner befitting of players who showed up for their first larp session;
"greetings traveller--can i--offer you some infffformation?" -chosen well of souls, game dungeon
(related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw)

a final point of contention is the obnoxious use of ooc builds as ic character jobs/titles. i don't think i need to write a 2000 page essay on why using the word "doomwall" IC, unironically, isnt exactly what id consider solid rp; it just sounds like one of those 'le epic 4th wall surrealism' things you'd find on those new age gaudy deadpool comic books.

these are just my thoughts and opinions and would gladly appreciate feedback, thoughts, or otherwise. hit me up on my discord - Phoenix#9665 - if you feel as if im a wrong dumb baby man but are too unsure if saying it here is a good move
if this is in the wrong thread, please dont smite me moderators, im just a poor boy
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Re: On the subject of Roleplay[TM]

Post by EenKogNeeto » Sat May 18, 2019 1:35 am

I've had a lot of experiences with people using phrases like this in character and it always immediately breaks my immersion to pieces. People saying 'He's a doom wall!' in character just completely ruins the entire mood of a fight for me. It stops being two characters duking it out and starts being two builds. This mostly happens at the arena admittedly, but it happens occasionally in BDPs and elsewhere too.

I would love if people got a bit more creative when describing stuff in character. It's not Ether Invitation IC, it's a (Last ditch) shadowy strike with every ounce of their strength behind it. It's not 'The needle combo' IC, it's an explosion caused by shards of holy magic. You can LOOC if the actual skill name is important, but for mercala's sake don't say it in character.

And speaking of Looc, for god's sake people use it. I know EVERYONE does it, but joke emotes in character followed by (omit) are so omnipresent and it really sucks. Yeah sometimes its legitimately funny, but it could usually be a joke made in LOOC instead. I've seen people all the time talking looc in emotes basically for RP exp or whatever reason they have for it, in every setting the game has from campfires to the town square.

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Re: On the subject of Roleplay[TM]

Post by BazTheBlue » Sat May 18, 2019 1:52 am

I've felt pretty strongly about this the past couple of months. In some ways, I feel as if it's gotten worse, but I haven't been playing for as long as a lot of the veteran Sl2 players. Be that as it may, though, I've roleplayed for a long time, and when SL2's description on Byond sells it as a "Unique RP Mandatory fantasy setting", I can't help but feel as if my immersion has been shattered with a sledgehammer when I go to the fighting arena only to see half the fighters speaking like the public chat in a competitive MOBA game. There have been other instances were certain players were speaking in the say tab using morse code, only to have the admins ask them to stop, only for them to do it again five minutes later. That and the excessive use of (Omit) memes when using full icon chat makes the chat scroll easily makes me wonder why I bother sometimes. In a similar game I've played in the past, this sorta behaviour was actually punished when done excessively.

I never particularly want to have that "why bother" feeling, because the good roleplay I've had in this game has been genuinely brilliant stuff, and I've met a bunch of stellar people through it, but it certainly doesn't feel as if this unique fantasy setting is very RP mandatory at all most of the time.

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Re: On the subject of Roleplay[TM]

Post by Spoops » Sat May 18, 2019 2:29 am

pizzatime wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 1:24 am
whats up gamers,

my name is steven callahon, and i felt it was important to talk about the subject of roleplay, IC, and other earthly considerations that may or may not extend into referring to your character as a build type or obnoxiously and or unironically using ingame titles (hitting hard on this doomwall thing, as you'll come to find) as an IC for your character.

BY NO MEANS AM I TARGETTING, WITCHHUNTING, OR SLANDERING ANYONE WITH THIS POST, AND KINDLY ASK SUCH CONSIDERATIONS EXTEND TO EVERYONE ELSE.
Good day, I can perhaps see why you've brought this up, especially considering the doomwall phrase, as someone who was around during the first instances of the use of that phrase I can assure you that it was made entirely IC at the time, it just stuck around for a long time as well, and has been used frequently to describe some characters since GR when people could freely make any sort of tank they desired, more on this later.

Though, you say that by no means you are targetting, witch hunting or slandering anyone with this post, it seems that a short while ago in the IC or looc or whatever have you take it as, when the phrase was mentioned that a little bit of issue was raised in response to the phrase, but I'll happily believe your text in bold here for the sake of this post.
im not any authority to dictate proper rp or improper rp, but for the past month or so ive noticed a trend of players referring to themselves by build names or other strenously tight titles (shes a ghost, bro!) or flatout mechanics (hes a eviter, bro). while i cant wave a wand and demand everyone drop what they're doing and change their IC, it is important to understand and differentiate the two key aspects to a roleplay setting;
I agree with you in this instance, such behavior in the IC is often looked down upon as a lack of quality in roleplay.

But, I don't think I've seen anyone running around and donning such titles, maybe a few roleplayers have been around referring to obvious in game mechanics as things in IC, but not enough to what I'd consider a trend, far from that in fact as a lot of roleplayers tend to make conscious decisions to abstain from this and think of ways to convey such mechanics into IC, or simply stay vague about it in the first place.

It is also important to note that many of the roleplayers who fall under this concern are simply newer to the game and will correct themselves in time, it is important to either correct them polite-fully or to simply ignore it if it isn't any of your business to give them advice, instead of making a thread complaining over it.
at this point you might ask yourself, "but steven, its obviously a use of in-universe lore concepts and theyre phrases that exist, so obviously it CANT be that bad"
in one perfect world, you might be right -- but the blatant use of these words -- and or job titles -- is thrown around so loosely that it feels more like a common staple (an obnoxious one at that) than the reputation theyre supposed to represent. in ye olden times, you didnt call duke lastname "the duke" to his face, you referred to his role in a status befitting of it's reputation, 'your humble grace befits you, ser lastname, duke of randomshire, greatest of all tapdancers in the land.' jobs, easy to obtain mechanically, hold a much greater significance ICly due to the feats/skills that are common to their profession (just because focus allows you to stomp with the force of a contained earthquake doesnt make it any less impressive, you know), but are met with such flatfaced and almost expressionless praise more akin to trading pokemon cards;
whoa bro are you using boardshaker? i didnt know you were a Chauturan Black Knight, dudebroski
I don't quite know how to respond to this one, simply because its not correct, blatant use of class names such as Ghost or spellthief or void assassin or what have you are not at all common place, to refer to another character as such without first knowing what that character is exactly is simply rude, if I make a standard knight who isn't at all the easiest to take down (Ghost/BK), but their background is as an imperialist or something else, then any person who refers to them as a Black Knight can simply be corrected in the IC easily, responding to such with their actual title, everything wraps up neatly.

That said some job titles do exist in the setting, the immortal black knights of Chatarunga, the esteemed engineers of Karaten, the holy priests of Lispool, the wandering lantern bearers, evokers, hexers, demon hunters, summoners, boxers, monks, verglases and such.

All of these classes do exist in the setting as actual roles or titles that characters can fill should they choose to, that much can be respected as well.
a final point of contention is the obnoxious use of ooc builds as ic character jobs/titles. i don't think i need to write a 2000 page essay on why using the word "doomwall" IC, unironically, isnt exactly what id consider solid rp; it just sounds like one of those 'le epic 4th wall surrealism' things you'd find on those new age gaudy deadpool comic books.
And yet here you are, writing a large post on why using the word doomwall has sparked you to write this thread, a genuine, bonafide PSA as to why you might think that such a phrase is inappropriate to the setting of SL2, I applaud you for withholding your 2000 page thoughts on such a horrific phrase.

Getting back to it, the phrase was used first ICly by one character, it was about my character at the time, the phrase I've never in my life heard before that day, it was a character of mine solely centered on defense, it was a dullahan Monk/BK who reflected damage and healed, that character exists today known as Tedric, and the character that coined the phrased exists today as another. It was only then that the phrase started being used in our ooc circles on Skype and Discord and the such.

In conclusion to this post, I genuinely read on this thread and am reminded of old PSAs thrown out on roleplay by Soapy, and how quickly those threads were canned to simply just being elitism, which is what this thread is sounding a whole lot like right now.

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Re: On the subject of Roleplay[TM]

Post by pizzatime » Sat May 18, 2019 2:38 am

summing up critique of rp styles to elitism is pretentious and sounds like a way to curve the fault from shitty rp to the person who has a problem with it

to address further points, /ghost, eviter, and cobra are all slang words that are consistently used by people at the arena and in most fights/

idk where you've been to not notice the apparently invisible trend, but please go to the arena and sit down there for an hour and just take it in

and yes i wrote a very long post to express my thoughts and opinions that are my thoughts and opinions on the current state of the game
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Re: On the subject of Roleplay[TM]

Post by Spoops » Sat May 18, 2019 2:43 am

pizzatime wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 2:38 am
summing up critique of rp styles to elitism is pretentious and sounds like a way to curve the fault from shitty rp to the person who has a problem with it

to address further points, /ghost, eviter, and cobra are all slang words that are consistently used by people at the arena and in most fights/

idk where you've been to not notice the apparently invisible trend, but please go to the arena and sit down there for an hour and just take it in

and yes i wrote a very long post to express my thoughts and opinions that are my thoughts and opinions on the current state of the game
Are we sitting on the same game? Because while I am there almost every day on a certain character right now, due to who they are, I haven't been witnessing the same things as you have, nor have I seen head nor tail of you really, just the same crowd as I usually see, that is until today.

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Re: On the subject of Roleplay[TM]

Post by pizzatime » Sat May 18, 2019 2:52 am

this sounds a fault of the "ignore it" mentality that seeks to shun rather than teach or properly critique (as is this post was made to do, contrary to the supposed elitism that vibes from it) but yes im pretty sure we're in the same third degree dimension friend
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Re: On the subject of Roleplay[TM]

Post by Lewdcifer » Sat May 18, 2019 2:52 am

I think some folk may be referring to what we like to call 'OOC Spars'. They happen in one corner of the arena, mostly; sometimes in other locations. But regardless, these spars are in no way IC, and are merely used as a way to test things pertaining to game mechanics, such as bugs.

In actual IC, I've seldom seen the usage of skill names or class names, even those that do actually exist within IC (which Spo mentioned in one of their posts). What was described as 'the public chat in a competitive MOBA game', assuming they did mean OOC Spars, are simply players communicating. With little experience, you tend to be able to discern an IC Spar from an OOC Spar.

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Re: On the subject of Roleplay[TM]

Post by pizzatime » Sat May 18, 2019 2:53 am

Lewdcifer wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 2:52 am
I think some folk may be referring to what we like to call 'OOC Spars'. They happen in one corner of the arena, mostly; sometimes in other locations. But regardless, these spars are in no way IC, and are merely used as a way to test things pertaining to game mechanics, such as bugs.

In actual IC, I've seldom seen the usage of skill names or class names, even those that do actually exist within IC (which Spo mentioned in one of their posts). What was described as 'the public chat in a competitive MOBA game', assuming they did mean OOC Spars, are simply players communicating. With little experience, you tend to be able to discern an IC Spar from an OOC Spar.
they literally happen all the time in the middle of the arena and are very ic
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Re: On the subject of Roleplay[TM]

Post by BazTheBlue » Sat May 18, 2019 2:58 am

I am completely able to discern IC and OOC spars, and I've had many OOC spars myself. They are by no means what I'm pointing out in any capacity.

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