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+--- Thread: summoner pvp balance. (/showthread.php?tid=406)
Re: summoner pvp balance. - Ryu-Kazuki - 12-18-2014
I'll be more inclined to say yes if it doesn't burn up my FP to compensate for them doing nothing at all.
Re: summoner pvp balance. - Ranylyn - 12-18-2014
Yet another "omg let's shit on PVE for PVP balance" thread!
Why?
Think about it. You need to summon the things to level them up. As enemy numbers drop, so would your youkai's ability to do anything, meaning you can't really level more than just 1 at a time, or else you'd outnumber that last enemy standing by more than 2:1, which would give a fairly high chance of just wasting FP for no reason! So this means that as your character level rises without being able to level youkai evenly, you might either only have one good youkai and a bunch of useless ones, or all of them too weak to contribute!
I mean holy hell, there's infinitely better ways to balance youkai than this, ways that won't completely and utterly shit all over PVE. But clearly no one gives two craps about that because omg teh pvpz is teh everything omgomgomgpvpfapfapomgpvppvpyus.
*storms out*
Re: summoner pvp balance. - Lolzytripd - 12-18-2014
this doesn't shit on pve at all?
most summoners get 50 faith
so its a 50%+ bonuses to faith of youkai actually taking their turn if you have double or more youkai out than there is things to defeat.
heck make it a thing past lvl 30 only, or make it so that youkai take all fights in dungeons that are a higher level than them seriously.
heck give summoners a new skill to rank up
Obediance. Youkai have 2/4/6/8/10% higher chance to actively fight when they outnumber their opponent excessively.
Or
make the formula
Summoner level-youkailevel+faith + obediance= chance to attack when outnumber
so if you are 60 and training youkai, have atleast till lvl 20 of completely unhindered training, then you could perhaps install carbuncle (12), equip some faith seals from oniga and badges (9), now you're set till lvl 41.
that just assumes 50 faith, a phenex summoner would likely have higher and could possibly reach 60 or higher faith meaning you'd only have issues at the endof their training.
also at the end of a battle the summoner can usually handle the last enemy
Re: summoner pvp balance. - Ranylyn - 12-18-2014
"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=2215#p2215 Wrote:Lolzytripd ยป Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:05 am[/url]"]most summoners get 50 faith
' WHAT. ARE. YOU. SMOKING!?
Here. Instead of your bullshit numbers, let me dig up EVERY Grand Summoner (Except a level 8 I recently LA'd) I presently have, for some REAL ideas of what to expect at what level ranges!
MAIN CLASS GS's (AKA HIGHER FAI GROWTH)
Level 35 Cabal Mech GS/G
![[Image: de2e53d7381abb3316def2138951571d.png]](http://i.gyazo.com/de2e53d7381abb3316def2138951571d.png)
Level 50 Wyverntouched GS/LB:
![[Image: 0c355c1d0aa72161447e9ede0752f0d3.png]](http://i.gyazo.com/0c355c1d0aa72161447e9ede0752f0d3.png)
SUB CLASS GS'S (AKA WHAT MOST PEOPLE WILL DO)
Level 24 Wyverntouched E/GS
![[Image: a74ab0cc6e292b26d3348b66de3a9d94.png]](http://i.gyazo.com/a74ab0cc6e292b26d3348b66de3a9d94.png)
Level 25 Agile Mech Kensei/GS
![[Image: 53729dd6c7eed67c58230928a9d4315b.png]](http://i.gyazo.com/53729dd6c7eed67c58230928a9d4315b.png)
Level 33 Hyattr BK/GS
![[Image: c37d29ae58162214be1e1ab39fea0595.png]](http://i.gyazo.com/c37d29ae58162214be1e1ab39fea0595.png)
Level 36 Elf LB/GS (Growths are LB/S, set her back down to max out an affinity. And I included the level in the SS since her stats are low overall)
![[Image: 232989a99f0ba856de390d803a6f8113.png]](http://i.gyazo.com/232989a99f0ba856de390d803a6f8113.png)
Level 60 E/GS
![[Image: c6c2536845d00b6e7f5590c8b89eba97.png]](http://i.gyazo.com/c6c2536845d00b6e7f5590c8b89eba97.png)
Re: summoner pvp balance. - Ryu-Kazuki - 12-18-2014
Ranlyn, I suggest you calm down, please.
On the off hand, I do agree with Ranlyn, I've never had a single character of mine get to 50 FAI, let alone 40; including summoners.
Re: summoner pvp balance. - Rendar - 12-18-2014
Man. On a 42-50% chance I know you can get atleast 30-40 faith. I have 29 faith on my guy that didn't even level up as a GS.
Re: summoner pvp balance. - Lolzytripd - 12-18-2014
With LA 5% grand summoner at lvl 1 getting good faith is easy, those characters probably mained evoker for will, will is a good stat , but not the only one, faith should be important
Re: summoner pvp balance. - Daisuke - 12-19-2014
there's difference faith being important and faith being required for a class to function properly
I'm all for summons being nerfed and all but not in this way because this system seems too RNG focused and that's usually never fun to deal with. Let's keep in mind that this is a game and things should be fun. Just because something is strong doesn't mean it should suddenly be frustrating to play.
Re: summoner pvp balance. - Grandpa - 12-19-2014
I don't really like the pokemon approach to things. Kind of annoying there and it would be even more annoying here. A simple way to nerf summoners without destroying them (completely) is to just make it so when a youkai dies/is forced out of existence via damage or magic bullets, the summoner takes some kind of hp% damage. Nothing too big, just like 5% or 10%.
Re: summoner pvp balance. - Lolzytripd - 12-19-2014
it doesn't weaken a summoner, it just makes youkai zerg rush a slightly less valid tactic for pvp.
here is the formula version 3
Party+youkai vs amount of enemies at beginning of battle +/- summoned allies.
example A
so you go into a crazy and fight 8 enemies, as long as you don't summon 16 you won't go over your limit
example B you fight a jammer normal.
you have 3 enemies and summon 6 youkai, they act silly but byakko is nice enough to hit a jammer with a basic bringing the enemy count to 4, now your youkai get their shit together.
example c
you fight another player 1v1, they are a papillion
you summon 6 youkai, they act kind of silly, papillion makes butterfly hell, your youkai get serious, you have them focus the papillion, papillion faints, butterflys commit suicide.
Example b
4v4
you summon 6 youkai and their engineer builds 2 bots, your youkai act normally
also now math time
the best faith growth as current is 75% on a phenec gs that's LA'd
65% for everyone else
so 45 for the phenex average, and 39 for the rest
+3 from traits,+2 from Gs, +5 from seals, +7, +2 stamps,+2 shinesword
this would allow an average phenex a 66% chance of his youkai listening
with the suggested base class passive giving 10%
also if he went ghost( a popular pick amongst summoner subclass choices) he could get more progressively with rising game.
or the summoner could just unsummon 1 against a single opponent, or go to rank4 summon storm.