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+--- Thread: Geist and Clumsy. (/showthread.php?tid=7221)
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RE: Geist and Clumsy. - FatherCrixius - 09-02-2020
Assumed this thread wouldn't get traction, so I didn't weigh in.
I don't particularly see this being a helpful change, Briefly put :
-2 Schwarz isn't generally the main loss in this matchup, you end up losing more damage directly from being unable to hit kiting / awkward ranges.
-Clumsy is just one flavor of movement skill prevention, and directly changing this wouldn't prevent the Boxer's issue, just one way it presents itself.
-Geist alone is unreliable, and while people repute it as being some form of big brain defensive skill, it's just shit against people who can ignore it.
TLDR over.
Geists aren't make or break for boxer. They're taxing fp wise, and an MG Can shell that shit away, and in the new turn order can get you outright two turned. Most forms of Clumsy are however directly geistable, with exception to new BK boardshaker, and while worth noting- it is typically not important to the match up if the inflict can be repeated that turn. The most 'counter-y' clumsy match up would be a Ryeser MG Tact, at which point you'll be facing more issues with excessive kiting and MG shells more so than the inability to move, and likely before you have an opportunity to move if you positioned yourself aggressively during fight initiation. While it might look a whole lot less fair to watch a boxer get tickled to death this way; it's not a whole lot different than a generic kitey cobra match up.
Having fought a few ryeser builds this way, It's a long and slow loss, and making me able to 'lul just geist bro' will either not adress much at all, or just force these builds to kite. I think due to the nature of these builds they will generally necessitate a stronger momentum economy from critting, and more facilities to kite : Two things boxer struggles with, heavily. My point being it generally not affecting the match up moreso than other build factors.
So, 'Solutions'
Have geist shritt / Korken not be considered movement skills : By far the worst choice. Evasion builds that rely on these to proc mirage scale get shafted.
Have Geist Shritt and Korken ignore clumsy : Also pretty shit, it prevents one flavor of movement lockdown, where there several. It's weirdly specific, and makes little sense intuitively.
Making Cleanse body cure but not provide immunity : Okay. It'd be a safer change than giving multi-turn immunity, costs momentum that you weren't going to be productive with eitherway.
Cleanse body cures and provides immunity : Depending on the immunity duration could be too strong or doable.
I don't really see much reason to take any of these tbh.
TLDRDR - Read jam's post
RE: Geist and Clumsy. - Maksimum_Fire - 09-02-2020
@Spo
The only part I needed to respond to in a very specific sense was the line that I quoted. Other than that all the thoughts I had to convey were "these are also potential options for change." I didn't weigh in too heavily or personally beyond that because while this is a topic that interests me, I definitely think there are those better qualified to weigh in on it. Our man Crix here for example.
@Crixius I'm glad to see your take on this since I respect your opinion on Boxer given your deep familiarity with the class.
I think the matchup won't change with just this, for sure. My original thought with this post is it could lead to some thought for change going forward to make this a more healthy matchup, but if you don't see that happening soon then I don't mind tabling the issue. I imagine we can expect to see some pretty major changes for guns sometime in the near future anyhow, and hopefully that leads to things being a little better.
Other than that, with your take on the matter, I don't think I have anything else to add. Thanks everyone who chimed in.
RE: Geist and Clumsy. - FatherCrixius - 09-02-2020
>deep familiarity
>respect my opinion
![[Image: unknown.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/590292030391844912/735280915026018357/unknown.png)
kit i just spam eins, man
RE: Geist and Clumsy. - Maksimum_Fire - 09-02-2020
That sounds like the deepest boxer gameplay available right now chief
![[Image: gremlin_cat.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407040480115818498/750643741307699200/gremlin_cat.png)
RE: Geist and Clumsy. - Mr.SmileGod - 09-02-2020
I wasn't advocating for cleanse body specifically providing an immunity after cleansing-- I was suggesting it being a thing from it the status ending. Similar to how stun / immobilized do. Or giving ryeser a weapon-specific 'can only proc every x turns' style thing, similar to how the on-crit silence spear has.
RE: Geist and Clumsy. - FatherCrixius - 09-02-2020
Ryesers only claim is momentum / mobility lockdown. Make it do no damage, -and- lose its identity for a round every x? Either they kite or they go to main a stronger weapon.
-Case in point, the silence spear. No one uses it for good reason.