+- NEUS Projects (https://neus-projects.net/forums)
+-- Forum: Sigrogana Legend 2 (OOC) (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: Balance Fu (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: Magic Time: Evokers (/showthread.php?tid=505)
Re: Magic Time: Evokers - Ranylyn - 01-07-2015
Okay, first off, I need to get this out of the way. Many people consider evokers boring. Why? Because Mind Charge is so overwhelming, it makes it pretty mindless. Mind Charge + Nuke. Mind Charge + Nuke. So how do we make it less boring? "BUFF MIND CHARGE LOL!" People seriously need to consider their arguments better rather than just going "what can we do to buff this?"
Mind Charge's listed effect is 2.5x damage for 6 Momentum. This is interesting. This means that in 9 momentum, you can do 2.5x damage, or in 10 momentum, you can do 3x damage. You can charge up before an opponent closes in, or while luring multiple foes into range, but once you're in danger, 3x normal spells is preferable (Especially before the Sear/Magaisendo FP cost change, when Arcane Tattoo + Mancy effects made it more FP efficient to cast 3 times instead of charging.) This makes you really think about when to Charge.
But no. How it ACTUALLY works is 2.5x damage BEFORE enemy resistance! So if you'd do 100 damage and your opponent would have 50 resistance (a rather hard number to get, basically requires a lot of luck and main class Ghosting, meaning crappy stats elsewhere) You'd do 50 damage, or 150 total over 3 casts. So mind charge does 125, right? NO! It does 100 x 2.5 - 50 = 200! So there's no reason to not charge, and it just becomes Charge/Nuke/Charge/Nuke spam! But no, every time I mention this, everyone completely spazzes out on me for trying to make Mind Charge less powerful than 3x casts. Which, as I've just established, is the entire freaking point in keeping it interesting!
So no. The last thing evoker needs is to make Mind Charge even more of an absolute go-to skill, especially when it flat out negates the point of having a resistance stat in the first place. What's that? Reistance still helps against the other mages? How many of them don't slap on Evoker for PVP just because of how powerful Mind Charge is? Resistance is a joke. And it's not funny.
What Evoker DOES need, and would be a pretty worthwhile buff, is more varied spells. A better selection. There's a reason Sear and Magaisendo had their FP costs changed: They were the absolute go-to spells, compared to the likes of Libegrande. Why? Simple! They did almost as much damage while striking a much larger area. There was no reason not to use them, the alternatives sucked!
So what do I propose? More spells to give different element more options for AOEs, to make every element viable.
Fire: Has AOE and Single Target. Let's add a full battlefield effect at half power but persisting over 2 turns, like Sear's residual damage.
Ice: Has... single target and single target! Let's add either a medium AOE avalanche or a fullscreen blizzard or something.
Earth: Has a full battlefield and a large AOE. Let's add a single target spike to really nail earth weaknesses for more per hit.
Wind: Has a small AoE and an interesting wide AoE that scatters them. How about a spell to propel yourself into them like a missile?
Lightning: Has single target and single target! How about a weather effect that drops 3-5 bolts that hit a random 3x3 area each turn?
Also worth considering: As the designated elemental nuker class, why no water/darkness/light/etc? Using water as an example, as it stands, the only sources of water damage are Kel, Swordfish Sword, Ensui, Coral, Parraeta, Whirlpool, Drown, and I feel like I'm missing one, maybe the Hexer spell that causes silence? There's a lot of untapped potential to make Evoker the best at elemental coverage, especially since some mobs/races do resist and have weaknesses to these other elements.
Re: Magic Time: Evokers - Lolzytripd - 01-07-2015
5 new spells, and 5 invokes would be good,
Fire
Single target/line spell
AOE invoke
Earth
Single target/line spell
Small invoke
Lightning
Aoe spell
Aoe invoke
Wind
Aoe spell
??? invoke
Ice
aoe spell
Aoe invoke
I said this before
Re: Magic Time: Evokers - Argonus - 01-07-2015
I've said it before... higher rank invocations. We can have all the crazy effects we want as long as it's backed by the proper rank.
Re: Magic Time: Evokers - Sarinpa1 - 01-07-2015
I'm againts field-wide spells. They fuck melee over big time .. . and group PvP? Even worse. And combine that with GS and urggh.
And higher rank invocations are perhaps viable to a level C-B. But that'd have to be some ultimate fuck-me-overy. Along with apropriate counters. Since Silence is the only thing that can stop an invocation. (Being that any decent mage cannot have it interrupted by damage)
Re: Magic Time: Evokers - Normal Username - 01-07-2015
"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=2954#p2954 Wrote:Argonus » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:58 pm[/url]"Maybe when higher rank evocation show up we'll see something interesting.
This.
Re: Magic Time: Evokers - Ryu-Kazuki - 01-07-2015
"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=3050#p3050 Wrote:Argonus » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:13 pm[/url]"]I've said it before... higher rank invocations. We can have all the crazy effects we want as long as it's backed by the proper rank.
I don't feel like wasting SP on skills that take me 3 turns to prepare and I can die in that amount of time, sir.
More non-invocations for now will be fine, leave the big guns for when things are fixed and not in dire need of not sucking.
Re: Magic Time: Evokers - Blissus - 01-08-2015
"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=3089#p3089 Wrote:Ryu-Kazuki » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:47 pm[/url]"]This. Let's all waste more SPs so we can waste over 40 FP just to be silenced or simply wrecked just before we can cast or just have 70% or more of the damage dealt nullified.
I don't feel like wasting SP on skills that take me 3 turns to prepare and I can die in that amount of time, sir.
More non-invocations for now will be fine, leave the big guns for when things are fixed and not in dire need of not sucking.
I think the thing is, all skills and spells from evoker, don't deviate from the damage focus too much. Even the effects coming from them, when they have, are to get extra damage. That is what I think of why it's considered boring.
Cast this damaging spell which extra effect is possibly more damage. Whether in the form of weakness like Intensify Cold, percentile bonus damage like Isenshi or crit percetile bonus damage like Ryemei, luck like Exgalfa, damage per turn for specific conditions like Sear, flat damage bonus like Wind Slasher and a more dynamic flat damage bonus like Overload. This is without counting the majority passives and innates. The only ones that don't follow this formula is Libegrande, Magaisendo and Vydel.
But it's funny, after reading this, it doesn't look boring at all, but in the end it's mostly just damage.
Or so I think? Just raising an assumption.