+- NEUS Projects (https://neus-projects.net/forums)
+-- Forum: Sigrogana Legend 2 (OOC) (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: Balance Fu (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: Team-wide healing Suggestion (/showthread.php?tid=10391)
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - Skimmy2 - 07-25-2023
(07-24-2023, 09:31 PM)Kameron8 Wrote: This is an age old problem with group PvP balance, not a new one. If your team faces a group with a healer (or multiple), and your group doesn't have one, 9/10 times you lose unless the enemy royally screws up. If both teams have several healers but one team has interference, it's the same story.
AoE healing starts at 100 and grows upwards of 450. The accessibility of just Second Chancing or Phoenixing one to three people off of the ground, which already heals a ton, then healing them back to >75% in the next action makes optimized PvP a slow grindfest of attrition that devolves into people rubber banding from dead on the floor to nearly full health several times in one fight.
At the very least, make spam resurrecting and healing unconscious people harder. This isn't an elf problem, an interference problem, or a silence problem, it's a systemic one.
Personally I second making Reviving from 0HP more debilitating debuffs during a fight.
Perhaps taking 50% increased damage for a turn or two, or all healing is at 50% effectiveness upon them.
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - Fern - 07-25-2023
(07-25-2023, 10:10 AM)Skimmy2 Wrote:(07-24-2023, 09:31 PM)Kameron8 Wrote: This is an age old problem with group PvP balance, not a new one. If your team faces a group with a healer (or multiple), and your group doesn't have one, 9/10 times you lose unless the enemy royally screws up. If both teams have several healers but one team has interference, it's the same story.
AoE healing starts at 100 and grows upwards of 450. The accessibility of just Second Chancing or Phoenixing one to three people off of the ground, which already heals a ton, then healing them back to >75% in the next action makes optimized PvP a slow grindfest of attrition that devolves into people rubber banding from dead on the floor to nearly full health several times in one fight.
At the very least, make spam resurrecting and healing unconscious people harder. This isn't an elf problem, an interference problem, or a silence problem, it's a systemic one.
Personally I second making Reviving from 0HP more debilitating debuffs during a fight.
Perhaps taking 50% increased damage for a turn or two, or all healing is at 50% effectiveness upon them.
if a change like this goes through, it should be specifically for when you're revived from stuff like phoenix/second chance
otherwise stuff like from the ashes, amalgama revive, or die hard is taking collateral damage/nerf unnecessarily
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - Autumn - 07-25-2023
Revives per fight shouldn't be impossible or be made so unrecoverable its not worth it to do in a fight, instead I'd say that revives are fundamentally flawed, Sal Volatile doesn't have a cooldown and is actually a pretty chunky heal with Perfect ranks, the only limit is your item slots which isn't saying much when everyone gets 5-6 of them to throw around.
There are a lot of things to do, but badly beaten is already the revive punishing mechanic and lasts quite a while too, making recovery quite difficult, the real hard part is having enough health to survive what would duly be coming towards you, IE: You were revived by a 250 HP heal like Sal Volatile, Phoenix or Second Chance.
The reason I say this is because I don't think that Die Hard, Amalgama's revive or First Aid has ever caused anyone enough duress to salt about, but stuff like From The Ashes and the above mentioned effects? Definitely can be frustrating staring down someone you need to spend more than 1 or 2 actions to down again. Certain defeat definitely fixes a lot of issues.
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - FaeLenx - 07-26-2023
Give strength critters a crumb of content and make two traits. One is a strength trait that lets you apply certain defeat with a kick and the other is a guile trait that either automatically procs a kick against someone you down in melee range or automatically kicks anyone downed next to you in melee at the start of every turn.
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - Poruku - 07-26-2023
I think aoe heals need to be looked at for sure. Malmelo, cantus, phoenix, mass graft and healing discharge need to be looked at specifically, and balanced accordingly. It's not a matter of nerfing heals across the board, and elves aren't really the issue. It's the fact that aoe healing in a large team is too good.
I think a formula that would work is that the total healing is split across all targets, and increases by 20% per extra target.
1 target = 100%
2 targets = 60% each
3 targets = 46.66%
4 targets= 40% each
And so on. Meaning the aoe is still useful, but you have to think about how you're using these, and ideally you are trying to avoid healing people who are already full hp. I think it makes sense, because unlike something like an aoe attack where it's simply an area where an explosion/thing occurs, the healing you administer isn't going to be an "explosion" of healing, it's you pouring healing energy into specific targets. If healing worked like an "area" thing, we would be abusing aoe healing in character. Get all the patients of the hospital in a little pile, and blast them with healing. In reality, each patient must be healed specifically since releasing an area of healing would be a huge waste of focus. Using an area spell is more efficient, but it still requires your focus to be split. I think this is especially true for Malmelo. It's not like you're doing a map-wide healing wave, you're targeting your allies specifically, thus it makes sense that the power is split.
I think it's a pretty balanced way to do it, since it doesn't make it useless when doing single target healing. It nerfs those healers in large groups specifically. Also it could maybe smartly ignore full hp targets, perhaps with a trait. In addition, if using this method, elves wouldn't be op anymore either, but they would still be great healers.
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - Blissey - 07-26-2023
(07-26-2023, 04:28 PM)Poruku Wrote: I think aoe heals need to be looked at for sure. Malmelo, cantus, phoenix, mass graft and healing discharge need to be looked at specifically, and balanced accordingly. It's not a matter of nerfing heals across the board, and elves aren't really the issue. It's the fact that aoe healing in a large team is too good.
I think a formula that would work is that the total healing is split across all targets, and increases by 20% per extra target.
1 target = 100%
2 targets = 60% each
3 targets = 46.66%
4 targets= 40% each
And so on. Meaning the aoe is still useful, but you have to think about how you're using these, and ideally you are trying to avoid healing people who are already full hp. I think it makes sense, because unlike something like an aoe attack where it's simply an area where an explosion/thing occurs, the healing you administer isn't going to be an "explosion" of healing, it's you pouring healing energy into specific targets. If healing worked like an "area" thing, we would be abusing aoe healing in character. Get all the patients of the hospital in a little pile, and blast them with healing. In reality, each patient must be healed specifically since releasing an area of healing would be a huge waste of focus. Using an area spell is more efficient, but it still requires your focus to be split. I think this is especially true for Malmelo. It's not like you're doing a map-wide healing wave, you're targeting your allies specifically, thus it makes sense that the power is split.
I think it's a pretty balanced way to do it, since it doesn't make it useless when doing single target healing. It nerfs those healers in large groups specifically. Also it could maybe smartly ignore full hp targets, perhaps with a trait. In addition, if using this method, elves wouldn't be op anymore either, but they would still be great healers.
I actually kind of like this and I think Autumn's original suggestion was something like this, but this is also fair as someone who mains a healer.
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - Snake - 07-28-2023
Healing Sickness could be as simple as that, yeah. Problem is stacking up ten heals in one round, and keep the rotation going. It could even help balance out elf's whole shmuck with Staff of Mending.
RE: Team-wide healing Suggestion - Raigen.Convict - 08-03-2023
Potion sickness stops more potion use, why not as everyone said a debuff to the numbers for heals after receiving one. And i mean spells. But... lets give skills I.E. tactician the advantage that due to it being physical means its not reduced like tge bigger ones are.