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+--- Thread: Boxer: The second encounter (/showthread.php?tid=3965)
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Boxer: The second encounter - Autumn - 01-02-2017
There's still a few things to address about Boxer since the last update.
Cobra was given an evade check a while ago, I think the community saw this as a good thing as a whole, mostly because Cobra negates your attacks and forces people to spend momentum getting around you to avoid it, can we possibly see the very same thing added to Geist Schritt?
The reason I'm using Cobra as an example is because before Geist Schritt, Cobra was essentially the only skill that'd let you 'avoid' autohits and basic attacks entirely, then that got nerfed and was linked to evade, which made evade a bit more versatile that day.
Problem with Geist Schritt however is that it works from all sides, and not just 1, and Geist Schritt encourages building tanky, because even if someone gets past Geist Schritt they have to deal with your tanky ass, there's a good chance that you just won't die.
So I have a couple suggestions that'd help Geist Schritt's problems, both the good and bad.
For one, I really do think that Geist Schritt (Eins and Zwei), as a dodge should, use an evade check.
Secondly I think it should double the effects of Wind Weave while it's in effect, to further feel like you're expecting someone's attack and trying to avoid it.
And lastly, I think Wind Weave should also be buffed slightly, its sort of unrelated but it doesn't provide that significant of a dodge buff, its like 16 at max sturm and generally you wanna unleash your finisher by then, so perhaps it could be raised to Sturm Level*4 instead of *2.
Geist Schritt (Drei) would be good enough for the boxers who wish to remain tanky I think, as it'd still provide them a gap closer, sturm generation and the such.
My last notes is that I think that Boxer should be a great late game combatant, but Geist Schritt provides it movement and damage negation to get past the early game, while also providing sturm generation.
Re: Boxer: The second encounter - Sarah54321 - 01-02-2017
I support all of this, it's really Cobra#2 at this point, but rewards you too with the momentum given.
Re: Boxer: The second encounter - Soapy - 01-02-2017
Mobile vacuum doomwalls with 300 damage autohits is bad enough without negating skills, Boxers have 0 reason to build Hit or Evade, and evade sucks.
Plus this was basically my idea, so yeah.
All I have to add is that Wind Weave should be doubled when you use Geist Schritt or Swaying.
Re: Boxer: The second encounter - K Peculier - 01-02-2017
Despite playing a boxer I completely agree with all of this. Either the geist needs a toning down or the autohits do. Because the autohits still do ludicrous amounts of damage. Boxers have crazy good stats for survivability and damage with no real -fun- way of countering them besides being a boxer yourself.
Re: Boxer: The second encounter - Akame - 01-02-2017
I wholeheartedly agree with everything Spoops said. Boxer is literally pre-nerf Cobra but twice as worse because they have better auto-hits than Reaver/Matador, better mobility than Cobra's leaping lizard, better tankiness than matador, they can silence, they can ignore your Physical defense, armor, and most damage reductions with Regenschauer, then have Kip-Up, meditate, and cleanse body to put a cherry on top.
Making Geist Schritt check evade should make it more balanced, and it just makes more sense that way.
Re: Boxer: The second encounter - Neus - 01-02-2017
Saying Geist is at all comparable to Cobra is silly. For one thing, Geist costs Momentum to activate. Yes, it does restore it if successfully activated, but Cobra was 100% free. Cobra also didn't discriminate against damage sources. Geist has a 33% chance (or a 50% chance if we take Drei out of the equation) to be triggered by your first offensive action, and in the case you guessed correctly, they simply lose 3 Momentum for no gain.
If Geist used an evade check for its effect, it would be useless as a defensive tool, which is its intention.
Re: Boxer: The second encounter - Sarah54321 - 01-02-2017
Here's the thing, Dev. When a person sees what you're built for, or knows what you're built for, for example, a mage, they WILL know which Geist Schritt to use. They will not use anything else unless they feel like surprising you.
If not an evade check, maybe a Skill check? If you think about it, that can also make sense. Honestly it just is in dire need of changing. It's very hard to combat a boxer.
Re: Boxer: The second encounter - Soapy - 01-02-2017
Geist is 3m to move and build SS.
If you have any idea what your opponents build is, it also completely negates a skill, moves again toward the enemy, builds more SS, and refunds momentum during the enemy's turn.
Cobra negates an instance of damage, only from the front, randomly moves you away from the enemy, doesn't work while blind or knocked down, and requires an Evasion check.
You're right, they aren't very comparable.
Every boxer is nothing but a ball of tank with a Rebelling Dragon remains brawler glove, and GS2 means they don't even have to build RES. Nobody will fight a boxer because boxers only lose to other boxers. This is not healthy.
Plus, boxer vs boxer is literally more boring than watching paint dry.
Re: Boxer: The second encounter - Haunted Evil Pajamas - 01-02-2017
I'll post my suggestion for Geist Schritt here, originating from my topic in Balance Fu.
1. Geist Schritt, might as well get this one out of the way first, as it's the #1 most unique ability in Boxers arsenal, along with Schwarz Sturm. People say to make it evasion based perhaps, however the main focus of it is to predict your opponent, and I wish to keep it that way, however, I feel like it gives too much of a reward for succeeding in the predict and not enough punishment for failing. When boxer was first released, if you took a direct attack that was not an attack you predicted with Geist Schritt, you lost the buff and you could get hit with anything without being canceled, I feel like this was a good way to punish those who made an incorrect choice with the wrong dash skill, however it was removed, if I'm crazy and it was never a thing in the first place, then I encourage that it be a mechanic. Another thing is the reward for succeeding is too high in my point of view, it negates an attack entirely, moves you into close combat range, gives you more of your Schwarz Sturm, AND refunds your momentum, I think removing the momentum refund is a fair change, as it already rewards you with positioning, more damage/skill options, and you negated a potentially powerful attack. If only one thing was to be changed I hope it is this.
Re: Boxer: The second encounter - Akame - 01-03-2017
Then if Geist Schritt isn't going to check evade, can it at least get a 2 round cooldown? Besides Drei, and for reasons Sarah stated. They won't be able to non-stop spam Eins against basic attack builds, or Zwei against auto-hit builds etc.