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+--- Thread: [Immobilize] Sand, Vines, Thorns, and Seeds (/showthread.php?tid=6117)
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[Immobilize] Sand, Vines, Thorns, and Seeds - EenKogNeeto - 04-19-2019
Issue: Immobilize prevents all movement skills meaning most classes can't do anything but guard or end turn if they don't have blink, which is probably fine, but it currently can be infinitely re-applied for the duration of a fight.
Suggested solution: Apply the same kind of immunity as Frozen has been updated to have, and allow one to spend some momentum to struggle free from the binding/sand/roots/etc
Important consideration of this change: Grapple applies immobilize, but personally I don't feel it should proc this resistance, you'll have to decide for yourself whether or not people get extra slippery after a single grapple. - And the self immobilize inherent to grapple probably shouldn't be prevented by it regardless for obvious reasons.
Secondary consideration of this change: Legume bonders/summoners would be slightly disadvantaged by this if they proced it on themselves, which could be resolved by making Ingrain usable regardless or something.
Words:
Basically, every few weeks someone shows up and does a bunch of fights at the arena with immobilize spam, most often its blacksand sometimes its a seed sniper/thorn shooter and maybe someday someone will be a mad lad and make the even heftier doriad version of it
Half the builds get to do nothing in response and have to just IC surrender because they can't use any of their skills or do anything since its all flagged movement or they can't reach and it never wears off. Leading to copious amounts of free-flowing salt for very understandable reasons.
And that's just in spars. Imagine if it happened to you in a serious battle that could end with your character injured or dead? Having been unable to do anything mechanically while they kill you would be very sour indeed.
End:
Honestly, it's been needed for a very long time, it's been a constant issue but never truly annoyed anyone enough to ask for it to be changed, due to its rarity as a build and the simple fact that after the first time people just know not to fight against that person.
Re: [Immobilize] Sand, Vines, and Seeds - Noxid - 04-19-2019
Let's be honest the big problem is quicksand more than anything else. Usually combined with hexer for nasty results. The other methods mentioned aren't nearly as strong since they at least require setup or certain class combos and have existed for a long time largely with no issue.
Re: [Immobilize] Sand, Vines, and Seeds - EenKogNeeto - 04-19-2019
Noxid post_id=36160 time=1555649133 user_id=457 Wrote:Let's be honest the big problem is quicksand more than anything else. Usually combined with hexer for nasty results. The other methods mentioned aren't nearly as strong since they at least require setup or certain class combos and have existed for a long time largely with no issue.
They are pretty much the same thing as quicksand. Thorn/Seed check vs evade instead of status resistance is the only difference. They are all currently spammable. Don't see how quicksand can be an issue but the others not just because they are used less often.
Re: [Immobilize] Sand, Vines, Thorns, and Seeds - Snake - 04-19-2019
I agree. Immobilize can be reapplied way too easy depending on the weapon used, and it warrants a status immunity, if not only for 1 or 2 rounds after it expires.
I disagree with a method for struggling, though. Often, Immobilize has LV1 or 2, which means you don't have much room to struggle anyway, since most of everything will immediately insta-break it.
Re: [Immobilize] Sand, Vines, Thorns, and Seeds - Fern - 04-19-2019
I have wanted to suggest Immobilize Immunity for a while (like a month) now, so I agree with that one.
Don't think we need a struggle mechanic for Immobilize, personally.
Grapple applies the Restrain(ed) status instead of Immobilize, so no worries on that one IMO.
Re: [Immobilize] Sand, Vines, Thorns, and Seeds - renowner - 04-19-2019
Doriad's vine move immobilization: It already has a 3 round cooldown.
Seed sniper: Currently has a bug, or just really poorly thought out application system where if the enemy just skips, it removes the immobilization.
Give quicksand a cooldown and i doubt you'd see much problem with it.
At least in the past, i'm not sure if this is still the case, but stuff like crane hop and bunny hop and a few other movement skills still strangely worked in immobilize. Blink works of course. Immobilize also doesn't lower your evade to 0 like frozen does.
Re: [Immobilize] Sand, Vines, Thorns, and Seeds - Senna - 04-19-2019
Honestly, all hard CC needs a Immunity after it expires. Immobilize is no acceptation. It allows people to at least do something before they reapply the next immobilize status.
+1 for Immobilize immunity from senna.
Re: [Immobilize] Sand, Vines, Thorns, and Seeds - PantherPrincess - 04-19-2019
+1 from me for immobilize immunity.
Re: [Immobilize] Sand, Vines, Thorns, and Seeds - Autumn - 04-19-2019
Until Kiting strategies with winged serpent and retreating swipe and other methods of obscene mobility (While staying on the offensive) are solved I'm just gonna have to say this sort of thing should be saved for later.
Re: [Immobilize] Sand, Vines, and Seeds - Noxid - 04-19-2019
EenKogNeeto post_id=36161 time=1555649469 user_id=2034 Wrote:Noxid post_id=36160 time=1555649133 user_id=457 Wrote:Let's be honest the big problem is quicksand more than anything else. Usually combined with hexer for nasty results. The other methods mentioned aren't nearly as strong since they at least require setup or certain class combos and have existed for a long time largely with no issue.
They are pretty much the same thing as quicksand. Thorn/Seed check vs evade instead of status resistance is the only difference. They are all currently spammable. Don't see how quicksand can be an issue but the others not just because they are used less often.
Because quicksand is an AoE, costs 3m, deals decent damage and scales off a defensive stat which is gonna make it even harder to physical attackers to do anything. As I said before all the other methods have existed for a long time before the quicksand spell, never really gaining much attention as being overpowered. The thorn shooter requires a hit check and a crit check and the seed sniper requires certain class combinations to inflict it's immobilize as well as a hit check.
I have to agree with Spo here though, immobilize needs to exist as a counter to kite builds. Giving them 1 or 2 turns of immunity is enough for them to cause problems. The only change I'd say there needs to be if there has to be one is make it so you can't reapply it while the status is already active. This stops you from being permanently locked down but doesn't give kite builds too much free reign.