(08-19-2020, 04:25 PM)Maksimum_Fire Wrote: Null shell would be good for a change, but this ain't it.

Null shell, for multishot weapons, the weapons that benefit the most from spark drive which you called out, removes three beneficial status effects.  Three.  That's not a lot.  At least, not when you compare it to the six removed by singleshot weapons.  The other dispels are very rarely used- requinite is saved because its class-flexible and you simply lose some matchups without the ability to null off statuses.  Pressure Fletch costs Annorum, a much bigger resource than an Arcane Gun overcharge, washes away three status effects, and has no method of being passively built up like with Spark Drive or Thunder Drive.  Wash away is bad too.  It's a single status effect, and it's not as though you can choose which one- it's three if you're on void pollution, but that requires having set up with a black bolt earlier.  It's awful to make happen.  That, and it doesn't even have damage on it like Pressure Fletch and Null shell.

That's the reason Magic Gunner is even seen nowadays.  It's the only class with reliable dispels, an important mechanic in way too many matchups.

My personal feelings?  I don't think we should go the route of silence with all this, where nowadays the only reliable source of silence is a Hexer who's got their skill/will stacked to the ceiling.  I don't think it's interactive or fun to make the matchup between an optimally built mage and everyone else "pray you burst them down before they finish evoking their 3k damage isenshi."  I want to see nulls become relatively common place- Pressure fletch should remove one status even without annorum, and three or four with annorum.

But that's just me.  I'm gonna touch on your proposed change.  Making the elemental resist removal a charge effect is not a good idea.  You just mentioned before that spark drive makes it pretty easy to put out charge shots, which is what makes null shell reliable in the first place.  With this?  We're looking at that sort of thing, but instead of removing random statuses(and frequently being useless due to all the fodder statuses in the game), we're looking at invalidating all sorts of elemental resists.  That null resistances effect is really strong and its good in the place it is because it costs something for the magic gunner to use.  Instead of spamming dispels, now magic gunners will spam resist nulls so they can let their teammates do 9000 damage unhindered; this'd also bring even more rise, I think, to Narcus Tank Gunners, since the attack would hit, you'd null off enemy resistances....  And then that five hundred fire damage would slap down on an enemy, ignoring allll that resistance they had.  This is the sort of thing that specifically will invalidate players trying to build certain ways.  It'd even more intensify the kinda rock paper scissors dynamic of this game.

Null shell as it is has lots of counters.  Poise and Prophlyaxis are monstrous counters to Null Shell as things are, because its a constantly returning fodder status.  People frequently have arrows, a permanent status, applied to their character and left to sit- since, it can be nulled, and is a fodder status that gets in the way of nulling anything important.  Battle rush isn't that important to keep.  Easy fodder to block null shell.  Initiative buff, from First Move, works great for this sort of thing.  The competitive buff, for dealing high damage to gain status resistance, is another fodder buff.

Not to mention, outside of magic users and their Elemental Enchant?  Classes *do* have ways to play without a ton of buffs, just fine, and it's just a matter of adaptation.  I've heard Verglas' Ice Point Guard be called up as easy to counter with null shell, but, like, the player can literally just put the Ice Point Guard down as a tile.  The matchup's not that crazy.  Shapeshifter, I think it has weaknesses against null shell, but summoner itself has issues with mg- and I think that's a longer topic to go over regarding Summoner, when it has a good refresh done with it.

Now.  If we move that effect we all know for null shell to overcharge, unchanged?

It becomes in line with Pressure Fletch and wash away which NOBODY uses outside of desperate emergencies because sometimes buffs are busted and a matchup becomes unwinnable unless you remove an enemy's buff.

There are vibe guns that'd continue to frequently use it, and those are: Seed Sniper, Moonlight Mercy, Excel Sniper, Crazy Coyote, and Bell of No Rest.  Bell of No Rest and Coyote are singleshot weapons that synergize with spark drive, because of akimbo and because of double tap.  Coyote, particularly, is currently tuned way over every single other gun in the game, so I won't comment on that too much.  BoNR would have a lot less reason to use null shell, since now it needs to burn big resources to put out an actual effect that can't be put out super easy by anything else.  The snipers would use it just because they work better as a support role, especially seed sniper- So they'd frequently be used in teamfights, to basically pick out a target and say 'okay make him commit perish', like a sort of pseudo-buster cannon.  That's already the use of Overcharge null shell right now, but it costs an appropriate amount for what it does.

Here's my thoughts.  I think Null Shell should remain as is with its charge effect- a dispelling tool.  If it's seen as too strong?  Then just bring down the number of statuses that can be removed.  Make Null Shell Charge Power/3, which causes multishot weapons to inflict 2 dispels, just like Requinite, and singleshot weapons to inflict 4 dispels.

Honestly, I'd really prefer to just see dispels become more common.  Buff, not nerf, is a healthier way to handle this game in the state it's currently in, and null shell, as much as you all seem to pretend it is, is not unbeatable.  making it even harder to dispel statuses instead of just making dispels more accessible is just like the recent(bad) changes with silence.  It's nearly impossible to access except for a single class, which just.  Removes magic counters from the game.  This is why magic is so strong right now.  I really think it's important we think about the actual consequences to a change when we get upset over a matchup counter.  Knee jerk reactions don't help balance, and that's still the case with regards to null shell.


TL;DR
This reads clearly to me as "make null shell much less effective in some matchups and omnipresent in other matchups".  This isn't a healthy change to null shell.  I advise a minor nerf to how much Null Shell benefits from charge effects, if any, making multishots dispel 2 and singleshots 4.

(08-19-2020, 04:25 PM)Maksimum_Fire Wrote: The other dispels are very rarely used- requinite is saved because its class-flexible and you simply lose some matchups without the ability to null off statuses.  Pressure Fletch costs Annorum, a much bigger resource than an Arcane Gun overcharge, washes away three status effects, and has no method of being passively built up like with Spark Drive or Thunder Drive.  Wash away is bad too.  

That's the reason Magic Gunner is even seen nowadays.  It's the only class with reliable dispels, an important mechanic in way too many matchups.