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+--- Thread: Antagonist Guide - Polk (/showthread.php?tid=9802)
Antagonist Guide - Polk - Poruku - 12-13-2022
Greetings, roleplayer. Whether you're a grizzled troublemaker or looking to dip your toes into crime, this is a resource for you. I aim both to give people a place to start, as well as my personal advice on how to bring antagging to the next level. I'll also discuss mindset and how to have fun.
Please keep in mind everything in this guide is purely my personal experience and opinions. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt.
Part 0: Important Essential Concepts
Being an antagonist is not a black and white concept. I use the term because it's widely recognized, but the line between a normal character and an antagonist can and should be blurry. You don't need to "be an antagonist" to shake things up, create conflict, or oppose other people. ANYONE can start a fight because of their beliefs, burst into rage, commit a crime for their own reasons, etc. Never let the concept of "antagonist" stop you from doing something spicy.
EVEN MORE IMPORTANT: the concept of "evil" is not needed. You can cause conflict and even murder someone without being evil. In many cases, like in the real world, people kill each other because of a variety of reasons. Beliefs, emotion, revenge, duty, greed, etc. I will touch on this in the "goals" section.
So essentially, never limit yourself. Non-"antagonist" characters can and should fight each other. And antagonists can become normal characters, and vice-versa.
That being said, an "antagonist" refers to a certain intention and mindset where your goal is to create conflict and oppose other players. SL2 is a world with 100 bored heroes waiting for that 1 villain to appear, and you're that villain. That's why you must keep in mind your goal as a player: create content for players, while having fun yourself. Yes, antagonists can be considered "content" in my eyes. It's essentially creating something for other players to interact with. Although it doesn't have to be selfless, I believe it's important to keep in mind you shouldn't be selfish. I'll touch on this in the "mindset" section.
Part 1: How to Antag in SL2
The first step to antagonism is understanding SL2's environment, and what the hell antagging actually is. It is much easier and more rewarding to play an antagonist in a way that best suits the game, instead of trying to focus on your own idea of what you want to do. That is not to say one must always go along with the easiest path. Like with any skill, it's important to grasp the basics before breaking the mold. That way, you can break the mold in a much more interesting and calculated way.
There are a few ways antagonism can actually be performed in this game. Note that one character doesn't have to fit only one style.
- Organic RP
- Ganking
- Making a scene in public
- Planning a scene
- Crafting a story (aka bootleg eventmin)
- Using an eventmin (or being one)
ORGANIC RP:
I use this term to refer to simply being an antagonistic character, and roleplaying normally. For instance, you might be a normal character, except you're also a violent asshole. So during normal rp, if someone ticks you off, you might get in their face and try to pick a fight. There's almost endless ways to make a character that naturally fosters conflict. Psychopath, sadist, racist, zealous, any very strong beliefs (i.e. hatred for something), etc. This style is where the line is blurred between a normal character and an antagonist and can be extremely fun because you're participating in scenes and as the name implies, it's more organic, so it can be super engaging. You can simply go along with the flow of the story and figure it out as you go.
GANKING:
This refers to the classic style of antagonism, where you go around the map to try finding people to gank. This activity can be a lot of fun and is a great thing to do. It's easy and spontaneous, and can affect characters strongly since you're an immediate threat which forces people to react or at least rp about the repercussions. I think we could always use more ganks, and anyone can do it. Generally it's good to blend in some ganks with other styles since it's a simple way to make more people know about you and make people involved in your character's story. You can also do PLANNED ganks, which is just as good in my opinion, for different reasons. It's important to remember conflict rules for this style because it was essentially made for it.
1: Ask Danger Level
2: Clarify that the scene is locked! So important!
3: Agree on outcome if needed ("I wanna escape even if you win") (Yes you can do this)
Ganking etiquette - omitting: Some people just don't enjoy being ganked and will be salty or try to get it done quickly. If someone isn't interested, consider offering a deal before conflict happens wherein both parties omit the meeting entirely. You don't get reported to the police, and they don't get ganked. If someone isn't into it and just feels forced and feels bad or frustrated, it's probably best to just skip that one. Remember to roleplay with them and not just jump straight into pvp as that is a big turn off for many. Consider offering this deal upfront when you approach someone, they will surely appreciate it.
Ganking etiquette - fairness: In order to keep ganking fun, it's important to make fights that are equal. You can take a 1v4 if you feel like it, but you should NEVER outnumber people you are ganking, unless they expressly request it. It's just not fun to be ganked when the odds are stacked against you. Simply have a part of your party stay back while the others fight. If you are the one being attacked, you can also ask for a fair fight. Consecutive fights are a good option if you want to make your last stand something that isn't just a 2-turn beatdown.
In general, just make sure the other person is enjoying it. Otherwise, it's pointless.
MAKING A SCENE:
Essentially a mix between ganking and organic rp. You're going to a public area and doing something either criminal or requiring immediate attention. Examples would be pickpocketing, assaulting someone out of rage/madness/other, acting suspicious, being very rude/racist, picking a fight, etc. This can also be stuff that doesn't make you a criminal, like for instance you could vomit centipedes and people around you just have to live with that fact. This style has results similar to organic rp except you don't need the roleplay to progress naturally there, you are just doing it. For that reason it's easier and quicker. It's especially useful when there really isn't much going on and there's a lot of people in a public area.
PLANNING A SCENE:
This is an extremely varied "style" but what it means is that you communicate with a player and plan out a scene, where they are made aware that antagonistic shenanigans will occur. In a way, it can be applied to any other style, but it is best suited to making more personalized content for people. For instance, if you want to do something specific like attack a certain person their own home, that's where you plan a scene. Shoot them a DM, and go "hey can I assault you in your own home?" and they'll of course say yes so then you have to follow:
The golden rule(s) of conflict communication:
1: Set expectations!
"So I want to leave you bloodied cause my goal is to establish x and y, as well as provoke James. We are going to do mechanical pvp. If I win, I accomplish my goal. If I lose, you injure me and I escape."
2: Set boundaries
"What are your expectations and boundaries?" "It sounds fine, but I don't want to die or lose a limb or something, and I don't want you to break the house, also don't attack my child"
3: Come to agreement and compromise
"Ok but can I steal his shoes at least" "Eh, sure"
4: Set up
"I'll probably come from the window" "The windows are made out of titanium" "Ok then the chimney" "Ok"
5: Schedule
"Tomorrow at 5pm EST, let's meet outside and I'll start the scene"
6: Conflict rules reminder
"The scene will be locked, and we're going with danger level 2"
Follow these rules, and you can do virtually anything. It's amazing what you can do when you communicate and are willing to compromise. The goal of this style is to write a more complex story using elements that you just couldn't have through organic means. You shouldn't shy away from this style because sometimes it's the only way to make the story go the right way! Very important if you want to make a bigger and more complex antagonist. You can also do the old "hey anyone wanna get ganked/killed?" in chats and have someone respond. Then you can just gank them and go with the flow.
CRAFTING A STORY (AKA playing the bootleg eventmin
)This is where we get into some spicy territory. Playing bootleg eventmin is about orchestrating a story where other people interact with you or some NPCs you made, in a narrative that you've planned. This plays very similarly to a game of dungeons and dragons, where you're planning some routes and planting some leads for the story to go a certain way. This usually means you're working with people in DMs and they post about what they're doing, to which you respond in DMs or go in game to rp with them about it. There is 3 main types, though it's also a very versatile style:
1: Getting people to follow the trail of an antagonist. Make them roll to track footsteps, leave clues, make them piece together a puzzle or interrogate people to find the big bad guy who escaped, then wait for them at the location.
2: Solving a mystery. Murders, strange happenings, etc. There's something amiss, and people want to know what. Can lead to a big showdown, or just solving it.
3: Showdown. You want to be a cool powerful villain with a climax but you're just one scrub? No eventmin to give you steroids? Fret not. If people are game to play with your rules, you can set up traps, enemies, obstacles. You can make people roll for things and inflict injuries. The limit there is your imagination. Then for the showdown, you can fight people in consecutive 1v1s or go entirely with RP combat. Though of course, it's even better if you get an eventmin to boost you up.
Again, this method involves following the Golden rules of conflict communication!
You'd be surprised how much people are willing to play ball with your bullshit when you're offering them a story AND they know what to expect ooc-wise. Go wild, this is what rp is all about.
EVENTMIN MOMENT
Using an eventmin for your antagonist is a great way to up the stakes. I especially recommend it if you want a climax to your story. As an antagonist, the main purpose of eventmins for you is to boost your ass in order to make you stand up against a team of 4 player characters. This can come in the form of a buff, or by making the players fight a special boss or your goons. It's a great way to end a story, but can also be used as a story beat, for instance making people fight your minions while you escape through a portal.
Eventmins, when combined with the power of GM permission, can also allow you to gain access to certain powers and interesting plot points. You might be able to summon a very powerful foe, or concoct a disease, or make a portal, or consume an artifact to gain a power boost, or basically anything your mind can imagine. It takes a lot of effort and set up, but it can be very worth it. You don't need to be an eventmin to make high-stakes content like this, you just need to work with them! Take it from me, I've done it multiple times, to great success. You just have to remain reasonable, because if you're going with this route, you are officially working for the benefit of crafting a story, not to win. You are becoming a true villain and the expectation is that the heroes will vanquish you, now or later.
Part 2: Mindset. AKA the antagonist grindset
Your character relationships? Pointless.
Your character's story? Meaningless.
All the build-up, all the things you've worked for.
Your reputation, your connections.
All the time you've spent roleplaying this precious character.
All of it is dust in the wind…
It will quietly fade away, one day.
It will quietly fade away, one day.
Unless you make use of them, tell a story with them.
Unless you craft something that will be remembered.
Because every good story ends.
When playing SL2, about a year ago, I was playing a character I loved (Karvan), and I encountered some people randomly. We went off to get some drinks together and then had a fun night like teenagers would. Jumping in the canal, playing spin the bottle, getting drunk. It was a very good evening, and at the end of the night we were all having an amazing time, sharing a deep connection and discussing all kinds of personal things, before we went to sleep. I thought at the time, "this is it". This is why I play this game, for moments like this. How you can just be chilling and suddenly something amazing can happen. I figured that now we would be really great friends, and we'd keep roleplaying together more in the future. Long story short, we barely ever interacted again.
What was the point? Why did we share such a great moment if it's all going to vanish the next day? Why do I still remember that night fondly, even though in the end it was the most fleeting of all experiences I've had in SL2? It was so pointless and meaningless in the end. All that's left of it is a memory.
The truth is, I was right. That is why I play SL2, except what I gained isn't something that I understood at the time. I realized only much later that it did have value to me, but not because I was able to make friends and forge something that lasts, but because I was able to be there, experience that moment, have fun, and write a great story. When I think back on it, it was nothing special. Just some night with friends. But the moments I remember of my time in SL2 are the little things like that, where something clicked and a scene flowed. Where someone made a step, and the story started running.
I've had so many relationships in this game as well. Yet I realized something important: The relationship itself doesn't matter, it's the story that leads to it that actually matters. If you find comfort in it, then more power to you. There's so many amazing moments that come from love, even days upon days of 1 on 1 rp can be some of the greatest dialogue and emotional rp you've had. Yet in the end, all of that is meaningless, much like everything else in this game, unless it's placed against adversity. However, when you put adversity into a relationship, you'll find a certain reaction: people will sometimes find it too much, or feel like you've taken something from them. I've felt like this in the past, as well. Sometimes you have that feeling like you just want your character to be happy... Yes. I've been in dark places when Karvan especially was going through difficult times. Sometimes you can't help but be affected by it. It's not black and white, in the end. Much like everything in SL2, it all depends on the players. It takes communication, and understanding, to reach something beautiful. But still.... Over time, I've reached an acceptance. That Karvan is in fact just a character, limited by the context of his existence. That suffering, that drama, that loss? It isn't mine.
The takeaway here is that I've learned people get too attached. They hold on to their connections and their reputation and their work like it's all they have. They hold on to their characters and their status quo, they put tremendous amounts of playtime into a single character and place a mountain of weight upon that character's shoulders. But then, inevitably, it's going to fade away. The empire you've built? It's going to be eroded away with time. The daily routine will slowly set in, the people you've connected with will slowly leave and do other things. All this build up will eventually be meaningless, unless you write a story with it. That's why we're here, isn't it? To write. We're writers, we're artists. We're each roleplaying for our own reasons, but in the end we are nothing but creators.
So you have to dare. Dare to stand for something, to break something, to not compromise on something. Fight for something, protect something, become something. Don't go quietly into the night, dare to write a story. A story has a beginning, a middle, and an end. For all your effort to be worthwhile, the solution isn't to grip onto what you have gained and never let go. The solution is to consume it. Have a bombastic wedding, start something crazy, oppose something, bring in a new piece of the story. You are the writer, you can make literally anything happen to your character. You can decide to enact the next arc, the last act.
Draw people into your story, and reach a climax. That's how you will remember the characters you loved.
How does this relate to antagonism? Well, to me, being an antagonist is just about creating a story. And all stories end. My point is: don't be afraid to end. Your goal should always be to reach a climax. Don't compromise, and make something special. It's better to die, than to live long enough to fade away.
Yes, die. You will die, and lose. Be prepared to die and have nothing to show for it other than your memories, because everything else is dust in the wind. That's how you make something great. With each loss, you've shared something priceless with others.
Part 3: Goals and Character Writing
If you want to write a story, everything starts with a good character. You could write a whole book about the subject, but I'm going to focus on antagonists here of course. Crafting an SL2 villain is a pretty specific kind of villain though because you are limited by the context of the game. You can't simply make a world threat villain, or an evil mastermind (unless you're an eventmin), because the scale of what you can do is small. That's why a good antagonist must be appropriately scaled in terms of goals and general writing.
So you're writing an antagonist? Here's what you'll need:
1: Engaging, marketable goal
It all starts with a specific goal. You want to be able to explain to other people just what you want. If your ambition is too vague or way too big (conquer the world!) then it only serves to cheapen your character. If your goals are mysterious, that's okay, but you need to at least know the rules of it so that it makes sense. Note the difference between a goal and a motivation: A goal is what you want to do, a motivation is why you want to do it. Both parts are equally importanto. The part that is essential to understand is that this is the crux of what differentiates a generic antagonist and an SL2 antagonist. SL2 antagonists must keep in mind the realities of this game!
1: People usually don't want to die or have their story derailed too much without consent.
2: You're very limited in the kinds of crazy shit you can do unless you get some GM permissions.
3: You have to take into account triggers like gore and inappropriate things. You can go wild, but you need to be understanding, and the wilder your shit is, the more you should communicate and make sure people are ok.
4: You're a nobody! It's rare that you have the opportunity to be an antag in a position of power. If you are, then you should absolutely make use of it. But otherwise? You're just some shmuck unless you build up towards it. I don't recommend playing an antagonist that starts off as good and then becomes evil after a few months of build up. It's a shitload of work. Like, really difficult. And you aren't guaranteed to get your payoff! Plus people might see it coming and ruin it.
Examples of goals:
- Mess with someone (with consent)
- Drink as much blood as possible
- Steal a bunch of money
- Perform hate crimes
- Hurt people of a certain nation or group
- Dismantle a group or harm a nation
- Terrorism (Ted Kaczynski doriads anyone?)
- Kill someone (This one is a dangerous one to pick because of point #1 above)
- Push your beliefs
- Send a message
You see, the bigger your goal is, the harder it will be to pull off. And the harder it is to pull off, the more work will need to be put into making it work. And the more work you put into it, the less time you're going to spend actually roleplaying and having fun. Something might seem cool, but the most important thing is doing something you enjoy and that other people can enjoy. Yes, the smaller your goal? The better. A smaller goal means you're able to roleplay in a more personal way with people. Smaller scale means you’re less bogged down by details and ploys, and more focused on the interactions you have with others. I highly recommend starting tiny and, if it seems interesting, going bigger later.
2: Motivations
But why? This is honestly the more important part when it comes to the actual roleplay. If your motivation is solid, then the goal is just there as a vehicle for it. If your motivations are rock solid and make perfect sense, then playing that antagonist will become effortless and your decisions will become easy. This is where you can differentiate a really good villain from a mediocre one. Now, I know it’s a meme, but observe the following chart.
![[Image: R4CoLjs.png]](https://i.imgur.com/R4CoLjs.png)
You’ll notice that I modified the popular villain meme chart because I believe it’s wrong to categorize villains in a tier list like that. In truth, any motivation can be amazing as long as it’s well developed and makes sense.
I’ll go through these from the bottom up
Evil (Based tier):
Evil villains are those who are more classic, simple enemies that need to be defeated and they don’t care about the harm they do. They generally are seen as “evil”, but I don’t really like using that word. To me, everyone has their own motivations and everyone believes themselves to be in the right. Evil is a subjective term, and I don’t enjoy making cartoonishly evil characters. If you take something like sadism for instance, it can be used as nothing more than an “evil” justification, but it’s also a real thing that can be explored and rendered more complex. A lust for power, or control, can also be quite interesting to explore. There is nothing wrong with making very simple villains, because they can make an amazing story as a tool to oppose the heroes. An obstacle that forces them to put their life on the line. I recommend trying it at least once since it’s easy and fun.
Mental Illness:
The reason I call this the mental illness tier is because I find it more respectful than using words like "crazy". In fiction, we have a tendency to look at “crazy” villains under a lens of “well, this is cheap, he’s just insane”. However, you only need to dig a little bit deeper to find something valuable.
EDIT: I've modified this section as I've changed my opinion on it. I do NOT think you need to do research to make a crazy villain. I do NOT want to gatekeep this kind of villain.
There's two kinds of villains at this tier. Realistic depictions and fantasy crazy, like papilions. Realistic depictions of mental illness are really interesting because they allow a deep dive into the psyche and allows us to better understand people. Crazy villains are interesting when done well because even though they are usually exaggerated, they can also explore an aspect of humanity.
This motivation can take many forms, whether it's just a small addition to a character that makes sense and makes it a more complex and interesting char, or if it's their entire motivation. Tragic villains who think they're doing good but are deluded, those who can't help but follow their crazy urges, or just those who are just not fully in control.
Unusual Worldview (Sad tier):
This one is very similar to the mental illness motivation, but it’s more upfront and easier to understand. Your character has had a shitty life, or was made in a certain way. Perhaps an event has forever made them… Off. Easiest to do with homunculus and mechs, it’s essentially a matter of making their vision of the world different from the norm. Perhaps they think eating people is normal, or killing people will make them happier, etc. A big difference with mental illness tier is these characters often don’t realize they’re doing something bad or just don’t care. They’re often not very smart and easily manipulated. Can easily lead to weak writing if the reasoning isn’t solid enough. You generally want to make sure their backstory makes their behavior completely justified. Just keep in mind parents don’t go around teaching their kids to kill. You need something creative for these characters to hold up.
It's worth mentioning some characters who fall into this category might simply have nothing to lose and be selfishly going after their personal goal. I think it's important to note that many people who turn to crime in real life do it because they feel like it's their only choice. It is essentially a more interesting version of the "evil" type and probably the most realistic motivation for common criminals.
Revenge:
This one is hard because you need some sort of thing that justifies the revenge. Requires good creativity or seizing an opportunity, but if well executed, it’s an extremely effective yet simple motivation. The easier it is to understand, the more powerful it is.
Bystander tier:
Either they’re just doing their jobs, or they truly are forced into action. These villains are good because it’ll make people really sad to kill them. They’re usually someone that could have been us if we were in the same spot. Very good motivation when it works out, but also very difficult to find the right thing. I think these villains only truly make sense when you pair them with a more proactive antagonist, because then they can piggyback off of that villain’s ambition. This one? Just a pawn in their game. Try to stay away from brainwash/mind control/corrupted by evil thing, unless another player is doing it. Can be fun but it also detracts from the weight of confrontation because it’s basically… Not a motivation at all!
TRUE villain tier:
Probably the hardest to execute and hardest to find a proper justification for. A villain like this will essentially represent the real opposition to the beliefs of the heroes. These villains act with a goal in mind that is going against the ideals of the heroes, but it also makes sense from his point of view. Generally, it’s simply a clash of beliefs. What’s more important, freedom or safety? Pride or peace? Honor or Victory? A true villain will be capable of acting as a foil to the hero.
A foil, in writing, is essentially a character that exists in stark opposition in order to accentuate the hero’s traits. If a hero is very prideful, then the foil will test how far that pride will go. What will it take for them to abandon that pride? What is the cost? If the opposite is true and the hero has no pride, the foil will call them out as weak-willed, force them to affirm their ideals, question their legitimacy. The foil exists to elevate others and make them develop their characters.
This villain type is difficult to pull off, but extremely rewarding. It’s particularly difficult to play in SL2 where most characters don’t actually have strong beliefs one way or another. But if you find an opportunity, I say go for it, because it will reward those players who do stand for something. Force them to stand their ground, or develop their character.
3: Backstory
Now, your backstory is something just as important as motivation because it allows you to essentially inform your decisions on how your character is going to be acting. In addition, it allows other players to be connected to your character even before you start playing.
Did you ever think to yourself, damn, I wanna make x character, but first I would need to do x and y and be this and get this title and have trusted friends, etc? Guess what, you can just DM someone and be like “hey, can I be your dad?” and sometimes they’ll be like yeah ok. This means you can effectively skip a large part of the boring build-up that happens in SL2, where you know nobody and nobody knows you and it takes a while before you form any real connections. You can just discuss with someone and form a connection. Boom.
Then you write a backstory that matches your motivation. It should be fairly simple but also contain the following elements:
- Who were your parents?
- Where were you raised?
- What values were taught to you?
- A hook linked to your main goal. Basically, a story that you can talk about that links you to that motivation.
Add a bit of flavor and spice, and the rest should write itself as you play. The trick is to write just enough that you can link to that backstory, without writing so much you become restricted. If you write a novel, you'll only bog yourself down. If you barely consider backstory, your character will lack substance.
In conclusion
There is no right or wrong way to write a character. In the end, what matters is that you go into it with a good level of preparation and a knowledge of the writing surrounding your villainous deeds. You don’t need to write anything down, just make the mental exercise of clarifying things for yourself and thinking about the key elements. It will make your experience way more fun and your characters much more interesting.
Part 4: Execution and Tips
Here I’ll talk about more specific, practical advice that may help you do your job.
Communication
SL2 is a game all about working together to make some good stories. Although some prefer more spontaneous RP, communication is really important if you want to involve people more deeply. Always remember the golden rules of communication: 1: Set expectations, 2: Set boundaries, 3: Come to agreement and compromise, 4: Set up 5: Schedule, 6: Conflict rules reminder. Now, things get more complex when there’s disagreements. That’s why you need to be prepared to take your losses sometimes.
When communication doesn’t work
If you’re interacting with someone and they aren’t playing ball with you, sometimes it is best to simply not enter conflict with them. Move on to another person who will welcome your antagonism! You always want to use your time on people who actually want conflict, otherwise it’s just pointless. Make sure to ask them and clarify that it’s a possibility. If they still say yes and then bitch about it after the fact, then just move on. You don’t want to escalate.
Gank tips
When you’re out in the world trying to find a scrumptious morsel to rob blind, you’ve got a few things to consider:
- Never attack someone in or near towns, because scene locking might not protect you.
- The amount of players you have on your team determines how likely you are to get smoked. If you encounter a group that is more numerous than yourself, escape!
- You can ask to make balanced teams for pvp fights. If you’re 2 players and they are 3, you can just ask for two consecutive 2v2s. If they are chill, you will get it.
- If you are a wanted criminal, you can easily blend in by using a cloaked playby and go around cities so you can still grind and use shops. If found out? Summon escape rules and everything in the book to get the hell outta there.
Know the rules
Conflict rules actually mostly exist to benefit you, the main character :^). Familiarize yourself with them.
Conflict rules: https://neus-projects.net/forums/archive/index.php?thread-7366.html
- Scene locking protects your ganks, super important
- Danger level means you can just demand to not get scrambled.
Korvara conflict rules: https://neus-projects.net/wiki/index.php/Korvara_Conflict_Rules
- If you get captured, you can actually just demand to be released within one OOC day, if reasonable. Know your rights as a prisoner, these jailers are breaking the rules if they don’t plan a trial or your release quickly. You can also simply not consent to execution.
- Forced danger level is very useful when you want to enact a master plan. Get the GMs on your side and plan things out properly, and you may just get your cool moment.
Fleeing rules: http://wap.neus-projects.net/forums/printthread.php?tid=5565
- If you want you can just ask for a roll to attempt escape as long as it’s before conflict.
- The modifiers aren’t as complex as they seem. Just read it, it’s very much to the antag’s advantage. I’ve slipped away from bad spots a couple times.
Character repurposing
You can just change your profile, appearance, face icons, alias, and gear… And voilà, a new character. You don’t need to grind up from level 1 every time your antagonist dies. Don’t be afraid of dying! If you do it a lot, you’ll eventually have a bank of level 60 characters of various races who are ready to be made into new things.
Teamwork
Working in a team of antagonists can be more difficult than it sounds, but it can also be quite rewarding. Generally, you need strong leadership for it to work. Someone needs to step up and keep the ball rolling, as well as establish certain things. What kind of characters we need, what are our specific goals, what are our collective motivations, and what exactly it is we are supposed to do in the world of SL2. You don’t want the group to end up with a wide variety of unrelated goals and motivations. It’s important that expectations are made clear with each member as well.
Suspicion and being wanted
Generally, if you commit crimes, you’re going to end up being either immediately caught, or you’re going to be wanted for a while until you’re captured. When you’re a wanted criminal, make sure you don’t afk in the open or wander into populated areas willy nilly. As I’ve said before, it’s fairly easy to hide who you are in this game. Generally, it’s also better to commit crimes with a persona. Maybe you wear a mask or a hood that hides your face. Either way, being disguised when committing crimes is particularly useful if you are playing a character who needs their main face to remain free of suspicion to commit their antagonistic activities. Don’t fall into the trap of always being disguised though, because it’s always cooler when an antagonist shows their face and their personality.
The Chase
This is something I think is quite important for any antagonist. At some point in your career you may find that people really want to catch you. When this happens, you have a few options:
1: Just continue ganking and let them rely on luck
This method is cool in theory but since SL2 is a game with many people that have different schedules and the map is quite big, it’s very unlikely that the people who actually want to find you will find you.
2: Give hints
I think it’s good practice to let people know when you’re out and about. It beats having them search for you while you’re literally offline. You should stay vague with your hints because it’s actually not that hard to find someone hidden when you have a bunch of people looking for them.
3: Organize a chase
This is essentially where you play bootleg eventmin and let the players roleplay out how they track your ass down. I think it’s really nice because it gives a sense of build up and also makes you and the pursuers feel more in control. They are getting the criminal hunting rp they want, and you get to be a criminal on the run. Ideally, you should follow this up with a proper showdown using an eventmin if you aren’t numerous enough to defeat the enemy party, but you can also use the other technique of consecutive 1v1s OR you can use roleplay combat.
Roleplay Combat
An under-utilized but widely talked about topic in the SL2 community, roleplay combat is far from being a cure-all solution to conflict. It’s actually quite difficult to pull off rp combat that feels fair. You have two solutions for it to actually be enjoyable:
1: Agree on the outcome
If both participants agree on the outcome of the battle before it happens, then there won’t be salt and bitching about dice rolls and interpretations.
2: Agree on a system
If you agree about what exactly dice rolls do, then there won’t be an issue. I recommend a simple d20 roll with essentially 3 “hit points” for each combatant. Check out my roleplay combat system: https://neus-projects.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=9004
3: Agree to not do a finishing or decisive attack until x
In RP combat you’ll notice certain things can quickly finish a fight if you interpret them realistically. The biggest offender is stuff like grappling or moves that are meant to kill (How is divine eyes doing only a third of my hp?). If you want to stay away from dice rolls, what you can do is agree to not kill or disable each other until you reach a point where you ask “ok can I finish you off now?” and if they agree, you make a final move. It keeps the battle to a minimum of flow without relying on rolls.
Overall, RP pvp can be very fun, but unlike mechanical pvp, it’s only good if both parties are on the same page. Also, if you’re going to do something like a nonlethal brawl with just your fists, or another kind of non conventional battle, I recommend it for sure.
Part 5: Final Word
Being an SL2 antagonist can be a daunting task, but once you understand how it all works, it is actually something anyone is able to do. You don’t need to be the coolest, most powerful, super bad guy to be interesting. Dare to be just a guy who’s got reasons to do crime, and you might enjoy it. It doesn’t have to be stressful as long as you don’t take yourself too seriously and don’t put too much of your time and effort on the line.
Now, I hope it was obvious, but this guide is only reflective of my own beliefs and my own way of doing things. There are an infinite number of ways to play an antagonist, I’ve only given you the knowledge and techniques I’ve acquired and refined over the years. I believe that it’s best to start from a place of sharing what works, and then each person can then figure out their own way to play an antagonist. I wish you all good luck.
And remember: you don’t have to embody an “antagonist” to create conflict. All you need to do is strongly believe in something, and not compromise.
Let me know of any questions or feedback you might have, either here or on discord at Polkjm#0329. Thank you for reading, and I hope to see you shake things up soon.
![[Image: AiQA8fP.png]](https://i.imgur.com/AiQA8fP.png)
Be up to no good.
RE: Antagonist Guide - BoberJones - 12-13-2022
...lol
RE: Antagonist Guide - Bryce_Hego - 12-14-2022
(12-13-2022, 07:24 PM)Poruku Wrote: GANKING:
This refers to the classic style of antagonism, where you go around the map to try finding people to gank. This activity can be a lot of fun and is a great thing to do. It's easy and spontaneous, and can affect characters strongly since you're an immediate threat which forces people to react or at least rp about the repercussions. I think we could always use more ganks, and anyone can do it. Generally it's good to blend in some ganks with other styles since it's a simple way to make more people know about you and make people involved in your character's story. You can also do PLANNED ganks, which is just as good in my opinion, for different reasons. It's important to remember conflict rules for this style because it was essentially made for it.
1: Ask Danger Level
2: Clarify that the scene is locked! So important!
3: Agree on outcome if needed ("I wanna escape even if you win") (Yes you can do this)
I think the entire topic on an antagonism guide is ridiculous. Letting people know they can use the assistance of eventmins as a seldom known concept is fine but when it comes down to it antagonism is about understanding what is gotten out of it on both sides of the story, not something you can explain with a lengthily written flowchart. It's not hard to take a step back and ask yourself "is this going too far? does it improve the story?", something that even protagonist type characters -should- stand to do.
The ganking portion of your topic I absolutely cannot forgive in the slightest. I've gone through the wringer on Byond, DB RP games, NRP games, AoG, Eternia and SL2. SL2 is a vastly different RP environment from it's competition being mostly casual and petty conflicts, with the rare neatly written story between friends. Even with all my experience there's almost nothing about SL2 ganks that contribute to really anything good aside from the warm tingly feeling you might get from bullying.
I'll try to avoid talking about protagonist gank squads and focus on antagonist gank squads, be it 2v1, 4v2, or even the un-necassary 4v1.
I won't deny ganking gives victims some strong motivations to strike back, these are more often than not a OOC grudge of salt. Can you honestly tell me, if people you do not know or trust on an OOC level came up with a danger level any higher than 1, that you wouldn't be the least bit upset? Practically no one runs a build designed as an anti-gank as a "just incase"
Ganks are usually if not exclusively done against someone that had no chance of fighting back, like a random that hasn't even hit level 60 for the first time. The entire point of pumping up the numbers is to force a win and you admit that by saying it helps prevent avoiding repercussions. Gank squads are usually not consisting of fodder tier thugs either, on the antagonism side of things, they tend to be extremely well coordinated and synergized with strong kits that overwhelming any competition.
Now I get it, you're an antag. You don't wanna lose a fight, maybe individually you're a bad matchup for the target player. Maybe that isn't the case and you just are worried that the random guy you target might actually pull through and ruin your fun. After all, if you're ganking, chances are your fun comes from the act of winning encounters and furthering your characters goals.
Don't think for a second that danger level or the option to omit is a quick and easy cure. A lot of people can and will be running a "fuck it we ball" type mentality, where they are ready to accept what happens even if it feels dirty. In the end, they'll still be salty. I wouldn't say that makes the gankers inherently malicious since they did give the option to back out and omit the encounter, but it does mean the victim has a bitter taste in their mouth.
What can the victim do? They could try to confront one of the antagonists for a one on one, something unlikely given the gank happened in the first place. The antag might even feel fucked over if their friends were asleep or busy with IRL, even if the other side sees this as rightful payback.
The victim could completely redo their build from the ground up to try and beat the numbers, something that will more often than not end up fruitless. Again, Antag ganks don't typically consist of level 40-50s that are new to the game.
The last plausible course of action is forming a group. While the odds might not be great since chances are the group doesn't have perfect synergy, it's their best bet. Even if they do pull one over the antagonists, they probably don't feel that much better about the whole situation.
Ganking can work and be fun for the whole family in niche situations, typically those situations involving the player knowing their would be antagonists before they come. It eases off so much more stress for both parties to know one another.
This guide is unfortunately shilling the idea that it's a valid way to start conflict, and while it works, that doesn't make it good nor should it ever be outright encouraged.
Eventmins do not buff antagonists up so that they are guaranteed to win a encounter.
They buff the antagonist so they stand a fighting chance. Ganking is not about evening the odds, it's basically never about evening the odds, it's about winning so that someone suffers an IC consequence and now you're on the radar. Congrats, everyone thinks you and your posse are a bunch of (OOC) dickheads, except for the people that already knew you or could vouch for you.
Never -ever- say we could "use more ganks". Eventmins buff antags against protag ganks explicitly cause it's a blatantly harsh and mean way to approach OR end any conflict. SL2 is not a story written by one man, not everyone wants to get pummeled by unwinnable odds for the sake of some greater narrative they can't even see the end result for. Non-antags are not going to recieve a EC buff or compensation for toughing it out.
This is not something any healthy antagonist player should ever have to accomplish in a guide for antagonising in a correct way. It's not a healthy view of point to openly promote ganking in a game where skill gaps and mechanical advantages can lead to a unfair, and unfun fight. Nobody likes to get ganked by unfair odds, let alone when one person enough would be sufficient to beat them. The viewpoint of ganking to attack generally new players is a very walled garden approach to antagonizing.
A good story and RP story is not made through brute-forcing through superior PvP builds or tactics, a good story is made through making those encounters have meaning. Build up an encounter, build up a storyline with that person, instead of immediately forcing sudden repurcussions against their character.
A session of roleplay will always be far more enjoyable if both parties have fun, and both parties can look back and go 'hey, my character developed from this!'.
RE: Antagonist Guide - Mewni - 12-14-2022
The best guide one can have on antagonism is to not follow this thread, at all.
Unless you want to dish out a lot of shallow characters, at a point you even play 3 out of 5-ish of a 'group'.
There is a good lesson here, true. But of what not to do.
RE: Antagonist Guide - Dezark - 12-14-2022
I gotta say, if anyone is gonna give the guide to antags and such; i'd say it Sawrock.
Pretty sure he even got a old guide on the forums somewhere for it.
RE: Antagonist Guide - Moku203 - 12-14-2022
https://gyazo.com/d72d4deff104c35537d5b251ca2b8536
One of these things is not like the others, one of this things does not belong...
how does being a lesbian foster conflict?
RE: Antagonist Guide - Imotepchief - 12-14-2022
Do note that nothing I am going to state here is me trying to belittle the way you antag or your rp.
But...
The kind of antagonism you're advertising here is very much like a scooby doo monster of the week type of villain, not the way to make a good and persistant antagonist.
A proper antagonist character falls into one of three catagories, in my opinion.
The first I've mentioned, which does have a purpose in the fact that it can give people something to briefly keep their attention, but serves no real purpose beyond being filler between important events, but even then shouldn't include ganking as a main interaction, quite simply because it requires a very meta set of knowledge, how to build and penalizes people who just either want to rp or are new to the game.
The second type is one that provides amusement, they're meant to be more for the enjoyment of all involved, highly subject to the whims of participants and even with kills under their belt will get released from prisons and the like to continue their shenanigans until they cross some kind of line. This is the main kind of antag that seems to do well in sl2, as it allows scenes to play out in a rather organic manner without people getting salty.
The final is the slow burners. These are characters that may have persisted for a considerable amount of time as a non-antag or non-obvious antag, which have gone through some level of character development that brings them to a point that their views or actions start to run a negative effect on the world in some manner, generally while boosting themselves. Things such as corrupt politicians, religious/cult members are an easy route to go with this, but there are many more avenues to take it. These antags require patience and an actual commitment to story, sometimes not panning out as expected, maybe even shifting away from antagonism. Regardless to avenue though, it almost always takes a significant amount of time to get going and effort to persist, but in my opinion is most likely the most rewarding.
I would also like to state that slow burner antagonists generally don't require eventmins, but if world events are woven in at times, all the better.
Also... Why specifically lesbians?.. I feel like this might be projecting a little...
RE: Antagonist Guide - FaeLenx - 12-14-2022
There's a few good things to glean from this. Establish a motivation, establish an intention, and speak on an OOC level with the people you're interacting with to ensure that there's an understanding of it all.
There's a lot of bad things to glean from this. It seems to condemn or otherwise deter specific sorts of storytelling as 'lesser' or 'worse.' It presents a layer of off color humor that really detracts from any point it's trying to make. It's slightly masturbatory with references to one's own characters that most people won't have met when more common trope characters could be used to demonstrate it to people who have no idea what the example is meant to mean.
I appreciate people who go and make characters who do things that might make other characters upset, especially on a community that is so conflict averse that discord screaming is common for it. This presents a rather bad narrative for that despite quite a bit of its message being good. If only because it ties the toxic humor to the act of antagonism.
RE: Antagonist Guide - Kazzy - 12-14-2022
This is the most sanctimonious, look at me thread I've seen in a while.
What an unnecessary ego trip.
RE: Antagonist Guide - Autumn - 12-14-2022
Citing mental illness as a motivational antagonistic trait is a little tasteless.