[Rexan]

Ban Notice for Lumi, Aegis, Mewni, and Croakie

With the bans covering the same issues; and much of the appeals posing the same arguments against their bans, this post will be a Net-Cover of all appeals; as they are all concerning the one ‘Four-Person-Ban’ which occurred.  We will in our best efforts attempt to make it clear explicitly why this ban was enacted, and hopefully make it clear why there will be no repeal for a ban of this caliber. As well as communicate with all hope, that this was not a crack-pot decision of one or two GMS; but a unanimous decision by the team to go forward with them. We’ll start from the top, and go through each of the cases, charges, and explanations to the best possible clarity without putting other players at open-risk of Harassment. 

"For repeatedly gatekeeping, metagaming, harassment, and OOCly preventing others from being able to exercise their roles fairly."


This caught our attention and was investigated over the course of a few months, starting sometime in January. This was not an abrupt decision, it’s been a coalescence of evidence stacking up against them over time to form a clear pattern and equally clear intent.

The reason these four got the same ban message, the same sentence (barring Croakie’s time, which included a slight typo that we’ll remedy when the correct time is up), and were lumped in together is because they all acted with coordinated efforts to achieve the same goal.

You might remember that this is the same ban that Blade was dealt, for excluding the other half of the donship. This is also intentional, as they perpetrated the same thing.

With the added harassment charge, in this case.


So with that in mind and the way that we always handle harassment cases and try to curb the potential for backlash, we’ll explain the charges as best we can.


Gatekeeping

Normally private game-related servers for IC groups are an issue due to the fact that GMs can’t moderate them effectively and sometimes echo chambers tend to bring out the worst in people, as one of our previous threads mentioned.

But in this case, one was used to completely exclude not just one player in a position of IC power that’s meant to be on equal footing, but a host of other players on that side of Meiaquar.

It would be one thing to have a private echo chamber with the usual problems that come from them, but it’s another thing entirely when said chamber is used to discuss and plan important nation-related things that should be done in a place where both sides of an IC faction can see, on an OOC level.

To throw a metaphorical ‘benefit of the doubt’ bone, if the concern was that someone might metagame with that information if it were made available to them on an OOC level, then that should be discussed with GMs instead so we can ensure everyone plays fair.


Metagaming

Also known as OOC in IC, this includes things like fabricating IC reasons to be upset using OOC information for something that doesn’t exist and didn’t happen ICly.

It also includes making up reasons ICly to try to justify an OOC agenda of kicking someone out of a position of power that’s inconvenient to your aims of attacking another faction for more OOC reasons.

Likely with enough time and enough people turning a blind eye to it (or worse, being complicit in it), these things could have amounted to something of actual IC substance and the lines would have blurred too much to act upon.

Especially with a coordinated effort between several different parties.

But thankfully, we caught it early.


Harassment

All of these things were targeted attacks for OOC reasons and a history of issues between the offending parties and the victims.

Harassment is a broad, blanket statement that we use to include things that fall under the umbrella of targeted attacks towards others. (Highlighted in case any of you were unaware.)



* This includes dragging your fellow players whether or not it’s done to their faces.

* This includes unsubstantiated claims of wrongdoing in an attempt to get a fellow player in trouble.

* This includes spreading misinformation/false narratives about your fellow players in multiple semi-public spaces to ostracize them from their peers and increase the divide you created in the first place.

* This also includes hiding under objects to monitor what your fellow players are doing.

* And of course, DMing people to incite them because you didn’t like something they did/said ICly or otherwise.

As you know, in the past we’ve had to ban several prior offenders for posting inflammatory statements in SL2-related discords. The consequences of which were often not felt until months after their initial attempts to ostracize others.

We were lucky this time to catch things as early as we did.

OOCly preventing others from being able to exercise their roles fairly

It’s more or less been stated above, but multiple players were excluded from important discussions and things they should have been made aware of on an OOC level.

This makes it all too easy to say things OOCly and ICly to fit the narrative you’re trying to peddle, like:

“So and so doesn’t do anything, they’re unfit for their role”.

If you make it nigh impossible for others to be included in what your side of things does, it does make it hard for them to do anything. Meetings, prisoner transfers, almost anything short of directly ignoring them ICly.

But then, you wouldn’t have to go as far as Blade did if you simply didn’t allow them to exist in the same IC spaces as you, by keeping them in the dark.

Needless to say, it’s not something we can ignore.

---

Whilst the team in whole agrees we ought’ best create a more conducive system for enacting bans; both to give more deserving players the punishment they have avoided in the past, and to give those who are harassed or elsewise more confidence and support that they need to bring their issues forward; this ban and it’s enactment was something we all saw fit to push through. 

This whole situation’s development over the months of investigation have made it clear that we need to have a far stricter ‘format’ when deciding bans, punishments, and warnings. In that niche, we do understand and agree 100%. But that doesn’t detract from the crimes we did see. Enacted multiple times over and with clear intent to sow OOC dissent amongst players for some level of IC gain.

To those who were banned, we hope that the time off from the game, short as it is, can be used in some medium of self reflection over one’s own actions and how they’ve affected the players around them.

To those who are unconvinced, and see this as a matter of GM overstepping. It is a shame. But it’s also an argument we can only fight so much personally; as opinions like those tend to be set in stone and infallibly hard to deter, only through action can they elsewise be proven. 

It is an established policy for a long time, (See rulings by Balthie, Pandos, & Dyst) that we will not place evidence in harassment cases out for public review. This is due to the amount of backlash as well as direct and indirect targeting either victims or informants receive. This is not a decision made by the team to obfuscate our motives for bans, but to protect the individuals who are victimised and those who inform us.

And to those who are simply taking the time to read this, we hope this has at least offered some level of clarity as to the depth and scope of this situation.

[Mewni]

Alright, after quite a bit of time waiting for a response, its time for the rebuttal.

Gatekeeping

Normally private game-related servers for IC groups are an issue due to the fact that GMs can’t moderate them effectively and sometimes echo chambers tend to bring out the worst in people, as one of our previous threads mentioned.

But in this case, one was used to completely exclude not just one player in a position of IC power that’s meant to be on equal footing, but a host of other players on that side of Meiaquar.

It would be one thing to have a private echo chamber with the usual problems that come from them, but it’s another thing entirely when said chamber is used to discuss and plan important nation-related things that should be done in a place where both sides of an IC faction can see, on an OOC level.

To throw a metaphorical ‘benefit of the doubt’ bone, if the concern was that someone might metagame with that information if it were made available to them on an OOC level, then that should be discussed with GMs instead so we can ensure everyone plays fair.

That is a interesting argument, and would make sense if that is the case, however, you ignored completely the existence of the Hearth discord group, which does all of that to a much higher degree, was a place used for TCBlade to do such, and is being used by the current Don to do the same.



Besides, It's strange how 4 people got banned when the group has... 19 people?

Metagaming

Also known as OOC in IC, this includes things like fabricating IC reasons to be upset using OOC information for something that doesn’t exist and didn’t happen ICly.

It also includes making up reasons ICly to try to justify an OOC agenda of kicking someone out of a position of power that’s inconvenient to your aims of attacking another faction for more OOC reasons.

Likely with enough time and enough people turning a blind eye to it (or worse, being complicit in it), these things could have amounted to something of actual IC substance and the lines would have blurred too much to act upon.

Especially with a coordinated effort between several different parties.

But thankfully, we caught it early.

Not a single thing that did generate discontent within the characters was OOC driven at all, and everything that was used to for a reason wasn't fabricated, and have screenshots of it being actually roleplayed out, the fact that the GM handling it didn't reach out to ask for logs or reasoning from the other party makes this incredibly one-sided and extremely easy to just put another side you don't like on ice simply because you made it a GM matter not a IC matter as it should (which is exactly what happened



Its also interesting to say something been going for a few months, while at the same time stating you caught it early.

Harassment

All of these things were targeted attacks for OOC reasons and a history of issues between the offending parties and the victims.

Harassment is a broad, blanket statement that we use to include things that fall under the umbrella of targeted attacks towards others. (Highlighted in case any of you were unaware.)



* This includes dragging your fellow players whether or not it’s done to their faces.

* This includes unsubstantiated claims of wrongdoing in an attempt to get a fellow player in trouble.

* This includes spreading misinformation/false narratives about your fellow players in multiple semi-public spaces to ostracize them from their peers and increase the divide you created in the first place.

* This also includes hiding under objects to monitor what your fellow players are doing.

* And of course, DMing people to incite them because you didn’t like something they did/said ICly or otherwise.

As you know, in the past we’ve had to ban several prior offenders for posting inflammatory statements in SL2-related discords. The consequences of which were often not felt until months after their initial attempts to ostracize others.

We were lucky this time to catch things as early as we did.

Its alarming how many things said here, is majority of what happens in their own discord

And once you are being target of it time and time again, especially of ridicule where its daily voice-chatting about it, and they are so nonchalant and reflect it completely IC at a point they don't even give time for people to POST their actions in-game with the text bubble up displaying they are doing so, you are going to vent now and then because its frustrating, telling people they can't say 'man this guy sucks for kicking my balls' or they are harassing is beyond silly.

And I know for a fact, that three people here didn't go to others DM's to harass them, because as said, venting is the most harm that came out of this.
And again, a few months is hardly what I call early.

"Saying mean things to the person that is being mean to me" is not harassment.

OOCly preventing others from being able to exercise their roles fairly

It’s more or less been stated above, but multiple players were excluded from important discussions and things they should have been made aware of on an OOC level.

This makes it all too easy to say things OOCly and ICly to fit the narrative you’re trying to peddle, like:

“So and so doesn’t do anything, they’re unfit for their role”.

If you make it nigh impossible for others to be included in what your side of things does, it does make it hard for them to do anything. Meetings, prisoner transfers, almost anything short of directly ignoring them ICly.

But then, you wouldn’t have to go as far as Blade did if you simply didn’t allow them to exist in the same IC spaces as you, by keeping them in the dark.

Needless to say, it’s not something we can ignore.

---

Whilst the team in whole agrees we ought’ best create a more conducive system for enacting bans; both to give more deserving players the punishment they have avoided in the past, and to give those who are harassed or elsewise more confidence and support that they need to bring their issues forward; this ban and it’s enactment was something we all saw fit to push through. 

This whole situation’s development over the months of investigation have made it clear that we need to have a far stricter ‘format’ when deciding bans, punishments, and warnings. In that niche, we do understand and agree 100%. But that doesn’t detract from the crimes we did see. Enacted multiple times over and with clear intent to sow OOC dissent amongst players for some level of IC gain.

Nobody was excluded from anything that they should know; the Ashina doing a fighting tournament does not concern the Don; The Ashina girls going shopping does not concern the Don; The Ashina having training days or a day out together does not concern the Don.

Everything of importance that needed to be discussed the Don was included, and sometimes, even offered help and advice, including letting he be on the known of diplomatic happenings two ambassadors had, but was denied because they are 'not their men', at a point then even decided to bring someone (That isn't at fault here, the player had things happening in their life and couldn't be around) to a Summit that didn't know anything simply because they are in the Hearth Discord, and denied our willing help to be by his side.

Who is gatekeeping, again?

Also, its quite laughable that the argument was made that "You can't say they don't exist if you don't let them exist" when that is a unanimous feeling of the community as a whole, the only activities they do is among themselves, and only members from the Hearth are their people, meanwhile, the Ashina have multiple new players and faces, and do plenty of activities that involves ANYONE that wishes to be part of it.

This is quite literally, punishing a group for existing, because the other side doesn't do anything that doesn't portray themselves.

Its impressive how a harsh punishment was carpet bombed, including towards two people that didn't even partake in any activity of such group for way over a month, without having the other side heard at all.

[lalchi]

I step in myself for a short moment. Feel free to slap my fingers if it isn't appropriate.

That is a interesting argument, and would make sense if that is the case, however, you ignored completely the existence of the Hearth discord group, which does all of that to a much higher degree, was a place used for TCBlade to do such, and is being used by the current Don to do the same.



Besides, It's strange how 4 people got banned when the group has... 19 people?

I'm a member on the hearth channel due to my character "One Leporidae Band" being an old member ICly and previous character being used customer.
However the Hearth was a cafe theatre in the great six. 

The hearth has closed and is now mainly used to post meme and use vocal to talk of anything and watch south park or wrestling :v 

 Yes there's talk about SL2 too. And of course there is talk of Korvara and even talk about current drama.
There was even talk about the four ban. 

However there's no written channel about any Korvara or Meiaquar related topic.
And as for vocal, there's never been any major ooc planning aside of occasionnel "Anyone free to help me do dungeon" or "Someone has that item ?" 

Saying the hearth is a server united to do some shady planning where the previous Don and current Don are lurking to the shadow scrubbing their hand and snickering is pure false accusation. 



I don't know anything about the rest. I personally have nothing against the four involved banned players.

I just know about the Hearth and i felt like giving some more context on that one point alone :v

[Snake]

I'll step in and also say, this is kind of too 'in the air', with very little proof. I don't really hold much friendliness for any of these people banned, and one of them even has me blocked on Discord for being globally recognized as petty and immature, yet three out of four haven't ever given me or anyone I talk to the air of being anyone worth being accused for those things.

Hell, the closest thing to 'harrassment' I can gander from is Mewni being abrasive as usual, but that's just how her personality is.

I think the community would appreciate better clarity than say "We got stuff that can be used against you." like how Balthie had said in his own post a while ago, using logs, reasoning and explaining from A to Z the reason why things had to go that way.

A bit of logs or less mystery on the subject would help (by directly accusing the situations rather than saying 'you know what you did'). Because through and through, it stinks of 'things being intentionally cropped in a way to incriminate people'.

Sincere apologies for chiming, but it would be nice for this wall between administration and playerbase to become a little more transparent so we are all in the same mind that justice is being done, and you bunch aren't being tricked into punishing people based on whatever you're given "as long as it's prettied up enough to look like evidence", you catch me?

Otherwise I kind of fear what bad-intended people can do to me by taking my sarcastic, non-serious conversations out of context.

PS: Not going to sugarcoat it either. I think Croakie's the only one after causing intentional OOC dissent and in all honesty, doing whatever they can to hold an iron grip on their IC position as a Don while trip-kicking and devaluating the other Don and players' influences, the same way that happened with Blade, given their fame and poor intentions. Feel free to crucify me for my opinion about it, but I'm in a firm belief that they brought down the boat, and got Lumi, Aegis and Mewni the flake so they don't go down alone.

PS²: I just noticed this is not a discussion thread. oops-- I'd like to discourage anyone else from further posting if they're not adding to the charges, and just have this be a formal request to get things Balthiefied over General, or something. I feel that it's a good discussion to have, because many people are left dissatisfied with this retort and it could use more light on it. Kind of speaking in behalf of some.

[WaifuApple]

I also, despite the policy, do believe this doesn't really clarify anything, at all. It casts the exact same wide blankets the unnamed bans do, only loosely getting into potentials in the harassment sections of what could have happened, and I can presumably imagine that not every point applies to every person in the situation, too. There's a lot here that just feels nebulous, uncertain - and there's just no reason here beyond the roles themselves to trust that this is really the right call.

I understand that this means nothing - not feeling any more reassured isn't going to change anyone's mind, no less the GMs themselves, but this vague communication, followed by "we hope you can self-reflect and come to an understanding", helps no-one, because I don't think this is going to miraculously jog any memories to reflect from. It comes across more condescending than any attempt to actually mediate the situation.

This is not a good attempt to clear the air.

[NaitoPsych]

That is a interesting argument, and would make sense if that is the case, however, you ignored completely the existence of the Hearth discord group, which does all of that to a much higher degree, was a place used for TCBlade to do such, and is being used by the current Don to do the same.



Besides, It's strange how 4 people got banned when the group has... 19 people?

Hi there! Seems you have the wrong impression about us folks in the hearth as there's alot of assuming in this post. Lalchi has already pointed this out but I'd like to go further beyond by saying we don't really discriminate against who's gets invited to the hearth or not. It started as an SL2 thing but quickly evolved into just a general hangout where people come and go. SL2 is not a priority for us.

But that's not to why I reply, Mewni. I'm replying just to say that unlike most other people I'm more than willing to prove it rather than just say it. So tell you what, WWE Smackdown is on tonight and we're watching it. You're invited! Message me and I'll send you an invite. We always want more homies.

[Satoshi Gawd of Typos]

That is a interesting argument, and would make sense if that is the case, however, you ignored completely the existence of the Hearth discord group, which does all of that to a much higher degree, was a place used for TCBlade to do such, and is being used by the current Don to do the same.



Besides, It's strange how 4 people got banned when the group has... 19 people?

---

That...is a very strange accusation... There are like 64 people in the Hearth. Very rare if ever do we Exclude or kick people from it. Literally the only things we do is Play Video Games and Watch Wrestling together.

Let's not get things confused.

Nobody was excluded from anything that they should know; the Ashina doing a fighting tournament does not concern the Don; The Ashina girls going shopping does not concern the Don; The Ashina having training days or a day out together does not concern the Don.

Everything of importance that needed to be discussed the Don was included, and sometimes, even offered help and advice, including letting he be on the known of diplomatic happenings two ambassadors had, but was denied because they are 'not their men', at a point then even decided to bring someone (That isn't at fault here, the player had things happening in their life and couldn't be around) to a Summit that didn't know anything simply because they are in the Hearth Discord, and denied our willing help to be by his side.

Who is gatekeeping, again?

Also, its quite laughable that the argument was made that "You can't say they don't exist if you don't let them exist" when that is a unanimous feeling of the community as a whole, the only activities they do is among themselves, and only members from the Hearth are their people, meanwhile, the Ashina have multiple new players and faces, and do plenty of activities that involves ANYONE that wishes to be part of it.

This is quite literally, punishing a group for existing, because the other side doesn't do anything that doesn't portray themselves.

Its impressive how a harsh punishment was carpet bombed, including towards two people that didn't even partake in any activity of such group for way over a month, without having the other side heard at all.

Sooo, I'm gatekeeping because I wanted the other Ambassador to be at the summit? And no one expressed the idea of Bringing other Ashina to me before hand?

Also I have no clue where you are getting this idea that we only make activities for Hearth people. Literally in the middle of finishing an event open to all of Korvara. Same for the Auction. You keep trying to use the fact that the GMs decided to ban YOU as an excuse to attack us. We are literally just over here minding our business bro. Calm that shit down.

[Mewni]

But that's not to why I reply, Mewni. I'm replying just to say that unlike most other people I'm more than willing to prove it rather than just say it. So tell you what, WWE Smackdown is on tonight and we're watching it. You're invited! Message me and I'll send you an invite. We always want more homies.

Thats very sweet, I'll consider it for another time for sure! right now, not the best climate. But I'll keep in mind

Sooo, I'm gatekeeping because I wanted the other Ambassador to be at the summit? And no one expressed the idea of Bringing other Ashina to me before hand?

-------------------------

[Satoshi Gawd of Typos]

But that's not to why I reply, Mewni. I'm replying just to say that unlike most other people I'm more than willing to prove it rather than just say it. So tell you what, WWE Smackdown is on tonight and we're watching it. You're invited! Message me and I'll send you an invite. We always want more homies.

Thats very sweet, I'll consider it for another time for sure! right now, not the best climate. But I'll keep in mind

Sooo, I'm gatekeeping because I wanted the other Ambassador to be at the summit? And no one expressed the idea of Bringing other Ashina to me before hand?

-------------------------

Cool Guess I missed that, fair enough, Still does not change the fact that you are grasping at straws to trying and put your punishments on to us.

Out of respect for the GM staff this will be my last post here.

Mewni, if you have any more problems you want to discuss with me my Discord is Gawd of Typos#4397 feel free to drop me a message.

[Dystopia]

I think it's probably time for a lock.

Try not to incite each other in the future, that wasn't at all the point here.