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Senna · 11-11-2019, 08:12 AM

Not sure if I should add this in balance or not but I am a little tired ANNND I don't wanna forget this thought so.

Monoclassing has been a meme for a while now; it isn't taken seriously due to the fact people can easily use another class and get more and better bonuses. Some turn to gimmicks for sort of success whenever they do so but that can only last for so long. So, this suggestion is to make mono class just as viable as using two different classes.

Quote:Firstly - Technique cost reduction when mono-classing, ranging from 25% to 50% less.

Second - Techniques within the class (Not the passive and innate), scaling (Damage or not) should be one rank higher than normal as long as points were invested into it. (Still allow spirit bonus.)

Reasoning: Focusing mainly on one class instead of two, Its only fair for the player to have a better mastery over the techniques, from improving the overall effectiveness and efficiency. In game sense, it'll set the difference between the two, giving the players a reason to truly think about mono one class or using two classes instead.

HexGirlBestGirl · 11-11-2019, 11:44 AM

Senna post_id=38248 time=1573459953 user_id=2036 Wrote:
Not sure if I should add this in balance or not but I am a little tired ANNND I don't wanna forget this thought so.

Monoclassing has been a meme for a while now; it isn't taken seriously due to the fact people can easily use another class and get more and better bonuses. Some turn to gimmicks for sort of success whenever they do so but that can only last for so long. So, this suggestion is to make mono class just as viable as using two different classes.

Quote:Firstly - Technique cost reduction when mono-classing, ranging from 25% to 50% less.

Second - Techniques within the class (Not the passive and innate), scaling (Damage or not) should be one rank higher than normal as long as points were invested into it. (Still allow spirit bonus.)

Reasoning: Focusing mainly on one class instead of two, Its only fair for the player to have a better mastery over the techniques, from improving the overall effectiveness and efficiency. In game sense, it'll set the difference between the two, giving the players a reason to truly think about mono one class or using two classes instead.

Alright. Let me put my textualized or whatever vocals on this screen here. I'd first like to point out that this is a pretty nice idea in concept and all that. Monoclass for more benefit. Questionable in regards of allowing spirit bonuses so you can go +2 points above the typical norm instead of +1 in regards of skills. Although that's a balance catastrophe for later.

I'd primarily like to bring attention to this here. This right here.

[Image: p5jA1ex.png]

This is the primary instance of a skill, even if it's only an innate that promotes or benefits more than just getting four extra skill pool or more of a class bonus. Typically from gear that's questionable to be using compared to many of the other better choices out there. I'd personally prefer to see more stuff to this degree instead but in the vein of how main class skills are. Where you just don't get a skill if not main-classed or get a certain bonus effect if not main classed. Perhaps the same should exist for monoclassing as well?

Certain skills that get enhanced beyond just +1 effective rank level and some less FP. Otherwise, it'll only be a statistically better version of something else already out there. Granted, even Spirituality is the same thing. As it'll be now, I think it'd feel like something along the lines of:

"I can Wretched Oil too but...BETTER AND FOR LESS ENERGY!" as opposed to something like "Heh. Only a true master of the dark arts could do this..." Imagine if being a Mono Tactician made max level Assault Order also give Half the LV to Crit as well due to how well you're able to inspire or order around your soldiers? What if a Monoboxer could have an alternate form of Grandupper that's a toggle where you punch the enemy up and then just drive them into the ground instantly for more damage and partially reduced AoE damage to those around them at the cost of a KD instead of removing them for an entire turn. (Which is debatably stronger most of the time. Probably.) Just a few examples of what i'm rambling on about.

On a mechanical basis, it'll be better. It most definitely will. But it won't feel that difference in the base essence and that's pretty much my one and only issue. Which is more of a nitpick than anything. By all means, any form of weight added into the process of deciding if it's worth to Monoclass beyond doing so is more than welcome to me.

Is this where I say like, +1 or something? (Edit: This should also probably be moved or reposted in Balance Fu. It is a balance related suggestion after all.)

Raigen.Convict · 11-11-2019, 08:01 PM

Welp time to open that ol' wallet and shill out that dough for dev to add this in.

**Neus** · 12-07-2019, 07:42 PM

I'm not opposed to more monoclass bonuses but I don't think just a blanket cheaper + additional rank is the way to go. It makes balancing these skills a lot harder to account for white spirits already.

Autumn · 12-07-2019, 10:49 PM

The way to go might be bonuses via the Monk Method, where in Spirituality currently doubles when mono-classed, though I think that part is kinda weak currently, there could be some cool bonuses like...Arbalests having -1 duration on being locked out of cannon skills, Kensei's 'katana master' being doubled or tripled, Black Knights always having the black wind active. Etc.

I think a good example with kenseis having like, tripled katana master, that'd set their Sakki/Touki/Kenki/Yomidori all at lvl 30, making them feel like masters of their art.

Senna · 12-08-2019, 01:09 AM

What Spo suggest works too really, amp the given passives for the classes if they're mono. Enough so it's worth. The only real challenge is to find the list from each class that should receive this. (And yes, I do believe some like Monk passive ki, Void assassin passive void and so on (The others) should give x3/x2.5 instead of x2/x1 and some class with active supportive main focus ability/passive like Black wind should get the Eternal Flame treatment)

Lolzytripd · 12-08-2019, 07:20 AM

Another option for monoclassing could also be Certain buffs are applied for free at round start.

Mono classed evoker could get a round start Chargemind, a Ghost could get a round start wraithguard, ect.

Kameron8 · 12-09-2019, 12:07 AM

I stand by the idea that a small selection of mono-class specific capstone skills/spells/abilities should be available for people who chose that route. Abilities that have a much higher-than-average level of power, and could fundamentally change the way the class played. Limiting the number of capstone skills a character could learn for their single class would also add diversity between different one-class setups.

Unfortunately, I also acknowledge that this would be a tremendous amount of work to implement and balance.

Senna · 12-11-2019, 05:56 AM

Okay, I have some suggestions we could use to help mono. Since giving them flat status is too much, how about giving them a bonus effect if mono? Something to set them different from the non-mono without changing around damage too much. Originally, I'm not sure if this will be too much to code but I do hope the others can suggest more/balance some suggestion so if Dev likes it, he can pick some of them.

So I thought about: What if some of the mono skills work like Kensei Combo? Whereas they can do some thing to give them the effect bonus for a certain skills?

Some suggestions:

HolyChrist this took longer than I thought to type up. Some of these on the list, I had to wing it. Some I didn't know how to improve without a balancing problem. Though some are number changes, I kinda tried my best to avoid stuff that's just 'I increase rank'. I do hope the other players can change, come up with better ideas and so on for Dev to pick and choose what he likes, if he likes them or if we need to think of something else.

Though some of these are different, I always thought if someone completely monos, they should be better at the class than anyone else. They should always have a way to adjust/answer for the class's weakness. Though I can go through and explain why for each, I'll wait until what the other posters and Dev think about them.

Haunted Evil Pajamas · 04-29-2020, 07:17 AM

I want to revive this thread, shoot me later.

Giving class skills special effects if you are monoclassed I feel like is the way to go, of course all of these extra effects need to take in to account that you cannot combine them with other class effects, so really you can go pretty ham with them as you don't have to worry about huge class combos you can perform with them. I would even vouch that monoclass-exclusive skills would be cool too with the same thought process. I am not really too good at coming up with examples from scratch however so I apologize on that.

Another random idea, and feel free to completely disregard it. Maybe if you are monoclassing (probably with destiny as well to seal the deal) would be to give the player a selection of universal passives or actives to act as a psuedo-subclass to roll with, they would contain generic passives that would provide generic benefits such as perhaps the following (spit balling here, balance is not considered heavily at all):
-Reducing FP cost/granting FP regen
-Giving momentum back when reducing an enemy's HP to 0 (once per round probably)
-....Allowing more crafting levels?
-Access to a second-wind Self healing ability
-Access to a once per battle ability that grants you additional momentum for the current turn
-Give yourself the affects of an elemental enchantment without being enchanted or equipping a badge (overwritten if the previous are applied)
-Allow potential skills from weapons even if it is in your offhand
-Allow the use of any weapon to be used as a casting tool if it is made of the spells element, similar to conduiz but for all metals, such as Sylpheeds Curse for Sylpheed Spells

Again feel free to disregard that second part, just figured I'd at least put the idea as a possibility for something similar.

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