[sadbot]

I think these are good ideas in theory, but would likely lead people to gravitate towards whatever gives the most hp regardless. It doesn't change the fact that hp is very important and gives you a natural advantage by having more of it. I think there might be a more functional middle ground where hp is treated as being as mandatory as it is and you get much more via level up/investing stat points in general rather that vit stat points, while still allowing vit investment if you want to go the extra mile without it being basically mandatory to put points into vit to be functional. I think it's fair to say that as it stands right now vit is mandatory for literally any decent build, while the same can't be said for any other stat, even those still used very often.

Well other that apt but apt is dumb.

[Autumn]

Honestly I’d prefer if HP and FP were based solely off of your level, main class, sub class and race. Being able to build VIT is fun but it’s also mandatory and leads to situations like this where one enchant (more health) is miles above.

This is also off topic but I think blunt axe/club weapons should act like daggers and not require class weapon specialization or points in the axe tree.

This is on topic: I still want ring of thorns+ to gimp my HP.

I wanted to collect together my thoughts before commenting on this but...this is genuinely a good start to an idea, we shouldn't have HP values tied solely to a class system because that'd make VIT wholly useless without a serious change, but I did come up with a genuinely game-changing idea that could end up balancing HP as a whole a bit more widely.

See, right now HP has this issue of having huge differentials between builds, where as a mage might have upwards to 750-850 HP, a strengthy black knight is usually upwards to 1100-1200 HP, this 400ish HP difference is huge and easily draws the line between who's vaguely tanky and who is definitively tanky, I think one such goal should be closing this gap so that Giant Gene's HP increase isn't so vitally important to the builds which have low HP.

The way I propose doing this is by increasing base HP values somehow, where this comment of Saw's comes into question, I think that HP granted from Stat Points should be higher while HP granted from Vitality should be lower, since its not a 1:1 Ratio, here's how I propose we do it:

Currently HP Sits at the following amount:

240 Assured HP from Stat Points at LV60
Average of 400-500 from Vitality
Anywhere from 3 - 180 HP From STR
Anywhere from 0 - 100 HP from SAN

Then we have further modifiers from classes/items and other stuff

What if we ended up changing HP to lean less on these stats to make statting up less hellish for most people, but still relatively remain near the same actual amount, but with most builds ending up closer together to eachother

What I mean by this is thus:

Changing HP Granted from SP to 3 Per Point
Reducing Vitality's HP Gain to 5 per point

This would mean that every build in the game would gain 240 HP (480 from stat points) total. But every build in the game would effectively have their Vitality at near half effectiveness, to put it in perspective we would change to the following values:

720 Assured HP from Stat Points at LV60
Average of 200 - 250 HP From Vitality
Anywhere from 3-180 HP from STR
Anywhere from 0 - 100 HP from SAN

This would mean that without giant gene, and at 40 VIT you would be sitting at 900ish HP Baseline, which is much closer towards the current avenue of tanks we have strewn around, I believe this kind of change would also call for a slight nerf to Fortitude. (such as making it 50 HP instead of 75)

Notably, this also heavily nerfs VIT as a result, so I think to compensate you can give the stat an HP Regen threshold, such as 1 HP Regen every 5 points of VIT, this would help balance it out a lot for people who do invest a ton into VIT (Like Aquamancers/etc.)

Does this change how good giant gene is in the current landscape? Not exactly, you can't really beat out how universally useful HP is ever, you'd have to completely remove the feature or people would move onto Leviathan heart if it was weaker.

The existence of crit builds rising back into meta will end up making Boneheart much more desirable, but the likes of Sweet Leaf/Black Feather/Warding are all too very little impact to be worth an enchantment slot.

[Perdition]

Honestly getting rid of VIT as a stat and having class and other factors be more of what determines bulk seems like it could be worth investigating too. You could move water attack scaling to SKI which I don’t think would change much. Aquarian domain bonuses already affect both ice and water. Things like Aquaphobia even already scale using SKI so this would retroactively provide more synergy. It also makes the ice staff a better option for water mages too.

I think this would also better allow for the control of class strength. Mages now have more controlled HP thresholds so that they don’t get to be as oppressive with both high base DRs and huge HP values. Giant Gene also gets better the more HP you have so by lowering max HP potentially this also caps out Giant Gene’s power potential and makes things like Boneheart more viable due to less situations where you get insane value from Giant Gene.