[Snake]

How about limiting every god-forsaken autohit in this game to 140% SWA like they were before things started getting overtoned?

Are we really forgetting why Evasion was added? It was because of skills which don't bother with dodge or not were doing -too much damage-. But now? We're back to that stage once again, and numbers being easily from 150% to 180% to even 200% doesn't quite leave much room for longer fights anymore, atleast in PvP. Make sure to add together skills which now fully ignore Evasion for some reason and don't have bigger cooldowns or FP costs to balance out.

Last time I remember, Evasion was also an incentive for people who use autohits to atleast have some decency of building SKI/LUC to bypass the bare minimum hitting reqs to not get 30% damage removed. But all's history now, and it only keeps piling on and on and on with the reworks.

How we're fixing the problem? Putting Balance Fu threads on specific, overbearingly powerful and spammable skills that require a scale-down or a longer cooldown attached to them, instead of whining that 'doge is ded'. The solution is not buffing dodge, it's toning down things that ignore it.

[Swiftkusura]

See 3 evade per cel might be more reasonable, if not 2.5 or something to that effect, I think the big issue to evade builds is there's too many skills that don't last all entirely too long that you have to use to dodge, otherwise you can do it. But that's the problem, you're expected to play an upkeep game of those skills if you want to survive, where being a tank means you have nothing to really upkeep most of the times, as a large majority of tank things just *Are* I'd almost be more inclined to say change how damage is calculated with armor and you might make evasion feel more rewarding than it is currently, armor is a very powerful thing but that's because the more defense you have, the more armor does, meaning 10 armor with 50 defense makes 100 damage into 40, the armor reduces 20 damage now basically if you think about it,and if you put it first in the calculations it would leave you with 45 damage which would still be good without being as overwhelmingly good, perhaps the answer is to tackle how armor is handled because there's times that evasion CAN be good, but it's very rare.

[Shujin]

Pretty much with snake here. The reason why Evasion was even added was to prevent SWA stacking without having to build Ski/Luc. So now we added Autohits that either deal so much damage that progging evasion still deals more damage than that other person could do on crit (god have mercy if its also a lighting crit auto skill) or flat out ignore evasion bringing back the era of "Lets not build Hit, lets just build tank and damage, thats more effective!"


So yeah I have been of the opinion the game has started to get worse with every update in that regrad since a while now. Probably somewhere during the Ghost rework.

The problem is defenitely the over tuning of skills and how unpunshied it is to not build hit stats at all on those. even 140% is actually pretty high if you think about it.
cause even that, through evasion, gives you more return than evasion blocks off.

[DankDarkSol]

I know I hardly post, but I'll say this, Autohits in terms of Damage after they got adjusted after GR, where they were SWA/ELEAttack based, have ALWAYS been able to scale better then Basic attacks can. By a truckload after Basic attacks got their nerf to their bonus damage. I personally would just tone down what scaling auto attacks can do by enough where Dodges can survive, cause Dodges usually have to either build hit for basic attack and lose out on scaling, or just be worse then a tank overall by scaling autohits because they also have to build dodge stats to proc evasion reliably, and then be able to have the FP for those autohits.

I agree with Snake here, on toning down the damage for autohits, but I wouldn't do 140% for all of them. I'd do that for about the max, unless they are a finishing move like Execute, or Enma's. Make skills that ignore evasion have less scaling so while you DO get that good damage, you don't straight up melt them by just spamming it, stuff like this is what I would opt for, not bolstering their DR, or giving them more evade per level. Basic attack builds are there for a reason, we don't need to go back to Afterimage days where you actually have to use specific combinations to hit dodges with basic attacks, because Hitting with those basic attacks is meant to be the counter to dodgies in the first place.

Also when it comes to ignoring evasion attacks, why are there so many limited ignoring armor or reducing effects? Like more options to place stuff like Acidity, while obviously not going into stupidly high amounts of it, would be a good way of also helping out, also if there is a need for skills to have -def or res to them, -5def/res does literally jack all at this point in the game due to how diminishing returns work. Geldoren if you don't crit, will give you like what...Two extra damage? And like 4 if you crit? It ain't worth it if you really think about it.